Light Triggers and Lawyers???

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mercenary

New member
I've read a few posts that warn against having a aftermarket light trigger (under 4 lbs) on a carry gun as lawyers will jump on this. But what is the big deal about this?

If you use a handgun in SD, what difference does the trigger pull weight make?

How can they use this against you?
 
A prosecutor will try to make you look like someone who was out "looking for trouble" and took steps to make their firearm "more deadly" or "easier to use". Most of the arguments don't hold water in reality, and a good defense attorney with a good expert witness might be able to explain them away...but the prosecutor only needs to convince twelve individuals that the guy on trial is a gun nut looking to punch holes in someone.
 
Lawyers or not, lightening the trigger pull on a SD gun is not a great idea. For a revolver, it can lead to primer ignition problems. In any gun, it may make it easier to have a discharge when you didn't want one. It's the same reason you wouldn't cock the trigger of a DA/SA revolver if you suspected an intruder.
 
From a law enforcements point of view and from what I've actually witnessed in a court room about this exact situation is that attourneys jump on the oppurtunity when a situation like that occurs especially if you only shoot the person once. What they end up trying to do is to say that you accidentally fired the weapon in a panic and werent in fear for your life or as in the comment above being a gun toting trigger happy person looking to pop a couple holes in any bad guy they can find. My advise to anyone who gets into any situation where the gun has to be fired is shoot them multiple times to really show that you were in fear for your life. Don't ever pull a gun to scare a bad guy because that's when accidents will happen and you can be charged with that if there was no imminent danger(I've seen it happen on more than one occasion) If you pull you cw be sure that its necessary and don't hesitate to defend your life and the life of others if imminent danger presents it's self.
 
frigate88 said:
My advise to anyone who gets into any situation where the gun has to be fired is shoot them multiple times to really show that you were in fear for your life.
Click to expand...
Even when not necessary to stop the threat? You do realize, don't you, that a pharmacist was recently found guilty of murder for shooting someone multiple times when it (apparantly) wasn't necessary?

frigate88 said:
Don't ever pull a gun to scare a bad guy because that's when accidents will happen and you can be charged with that if there was no imminent danger(I've seen it happen on more than one occasion)
Click to expand...
Laws vary from state to state in regards to displaying a firearm. In my state, there are circumstances where the display of a firearm is legal when there is no imminent danger.
 
I was warned about the trigger issue by my CCW instructor who also is an expert witness in many shooting cases. It just adds another measure of accusations that the prosecution can throw at a person. I shot a friends .357 revolver at a range and shot two holes in the ceiling. I just barely touched the trigger and it went off. I thought I had it down and it did it a second time. No thanks to those super light triggers, give me something that will only go bang when I want it to go bang.
 
With all due respect, (none,) I refuse to live in fear of lawyers.

My preference is for light, very crisp triggers. Anyone who doesn't care for them would be well advised not to threaten me with great bodily harm or death.
 
Even when not necessary to stop the threat? You do realize, don't you, that a pharmacist was recently found guilty of murder for shooting someone multiple times when it (apparantly) wasn't necessary?
Click to expand...

The issue with the pharmacist was TOTALLY different, if we're thinking about the same story. That guy shot the BG, BG was down. Guy walked around a minute and checked out his store, then went behind the counter, got another gun, THEN walked over and put several rounds into the BG's head.
 
I've never heard that a modified light trigger pull could be used against you in court, and quite frankly, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The argument that I more commonly see is that during the panic and adrenaline dump one might experience in an SD situation, sloppy trigger discipline and a light trigger can more easily lead to an unintentional shooting.

Police experience seems to back this up.
 
The ultimate liability is getting killed. Second is hurting an innocent.

Anything that helps me prevent doing either of those is desirable, and I'll explain my reasoning cogently and rationally after the case.

Job 1 is hitting what I'm aiming at...


Larry
 
Here's the bottom line as I see it.

A hostile lawyer is paid to take you down. He will use everything he can to do that. It's his job. Did you use hollow points or reloads? Is there a scary picture of a skull or dragon carved into the grips of your pistol? Did you shoot the guy 2 in the chest and one in the head? Did you have a specially made, highly customized .45 acp that you carry everywhere, in case you "have an opportunity to use it?" Shoot, even your tattoo that says "kill them all and let god sort them out" will be used against you.

A lawyer is going to be smarter than the average yahoo, and he will know his job. He may be an angry crusader, who hates people who have guns, and you may present a challenge to his principles. winning against such a person is going to break you in legal fees.

Let me be honest. I'm a coward. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in court trying to save my butt because I used glasers instead of silvertips or hydrashoks. You will make a target out of yourself by going to extremes. Is a light trigger, a titanium firing pin, or whatever, an extreme? That isn't your decision. it will be the decision of a hostile attorney.

The very best advice I have to give to anyone is that they should buy a factory made combat ready pistol. They should use standard police rounds like hydrashock or silvertip, for example. You cannot seriously be accused of deliberate murder by using a super duper criminal killing gun and ammunition if all you did was take an off the shelf "specialty" 1911 and standard wal-mart ammunition.

And most importantly, you shut up, and not even discuss what sort of weapon you used.
 
Light trigger pulls were enough to cause Mr. Ruger to make the triggers on all his Ruger firearms very heavy to keep the ambulance chasers at bay. From being in law enforcement I've seen the light trigger pull attempts from lawyers. The best answer I heard for it was a lady said her firearms instructor (who was also a gunsmith) fixed the gun' so she could hit her target much better and more consistently, which in turn would help her much more in protecting her self against any threat to her life be it human or animal. It did and the jury agreed with her.
 
briandg - Well stated.

Here's the bottom line as I see it.

A hostile lawyer is paid to take you down. He will use everything he can to do that. It's his job. Did you use hollow points or reloads? Is there a scary picture of a skull or dragon carved into the grips of your pistol? Did you shoot the guy 2 in the chest and one in the head? Did you have a specially made, highly customized .45 acp that you carry everywhere, in case you "have an opportunity to use it?" Shoot, even your tattoo that says "kill them all and let god sort them out" will be used against you.

A lawyer is going to be smarter than the average yahoo, and he will know his job. He may be an angry crusader, who hates people who have guns, and you may present a challenge to his principles. winning against such a person is going to break you in legal fees.

Let me be honest. I'm a coward. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in court trying to save my butt because I used glasers instead of silvertips or hydrashoks. You will make a target out of yourself by going to extremes. Is a light trigger, a titanium firing pin, or whatever, an extreme? That isn't your decision. it will be the decision of a hostile attorney.

The very best advice I have to give to anyone is that they should buy a factory made combat ready pistol. They should use standard police rounds like hydrashock or silvertip, for example. You cannot seriously be accused of deliberate murder by using a super duper criminal killing gun and ammunition if all you did was take an off the shelf "specialty" 1911 and standard wal-mart ammunition.

And most importantly, you shut up, and not even discuss what sort of weapon you used.
Click to expand...
 
Good post, briandg. Standard weapon, standard ammo . . . and for God's sake, don't act like Bunny in "Platoon" after it's over. Adrenaline doesn't have to equal stupid. That's why you think through this stuff BEFORE you pack heat.
 
Okay, I'm not a 1911 aficionado, so I'm not sure the terminology.

A guy was telling me all of the cool things he had done to his 1911. Skull grips, etc, and the final thing? he had a smiley face on the end of the pin by the muzzle.

"I want this to be the last thing he sees before I shoot him."

Oh, lord to be a fly on the wall when he tells that to the cops and prosecutors if he ever is engaged in a questionable shooting.

He also insisted that he would never use anything but a .45, because the hole is so big and scary.

Oh, come on, that hole is so much bigger and scarier than the hole in a python?

He also insisted on nothing but standard ball ammo, because they look so "cool."

"you are going to shoot the guy with this because it looks COOL???? He's never going to see them!"

Oy vey.

The dean of the police academy remarked that the smartest thing a civilian could do, in a legal sense, is to buy what the local PD uses or suggests. I really respected that guy.
 
How are they (police, attorneys?) gonna know that trigger work has been done? I had a trigger job done on my M&P 9c which is my CCW but thats pretty much because the stock trigger was not very smooth.
 
@donH
Apperently there are missing parts to the story of the pharmacist. Whether or not it was an armed robery or what there is defently something missing and what Merad had to say kinda seems like it might be the missing link to your story. If it is the same story, than yes the pharmacist went beyond the measures needed and that's why he charged with a murder. If he simply left the intruder after he shot him and dialed 911 I can most likely guarantee the outcome would have been way different. Now when I said shoot the bad guy multiple times im not implying shoot him once then come back a minute later and shoot him again and then before the police show up shoot him one more time for good measures while he's bleeding out on the floor. I'm talking about the initial firing of the weapon. Double tap the bad guy or triple tap him. I saw in one case where an attorney tried to prosecute a man for defending himself simply because he shot that man once and claimed that the man fired the gun in a panic and it was an accidental discharge and the man was not clearly in any threat. Did it stick... No! The man was cleared, it was a clean shooting. Having a light trigger on a CW will not put you in jail for shooting someone, all it does is give the attorney some point of argument and 99% will be thrown out.
 
How are they (police, attorneys?) gonna know that trigger work has been done?
Click to expand...

It's pretty easy to test the trigger pull weight and compare it to a stock gun. Smoothing is one thing, almost every trigger will smooth out some if it is fired or dry fired enough. Significantly lightening the pull through the use of aftermarket springs, etc. is another.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top