LIABILITY of CONCEALED CARRY

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garyfdl

New member
I live in one of the last two states that does not allow Concealed Carry and I'm curious:

1. What is the liability to the someone, who is legally carrying, if injury or damage occurs as a result of their possession of a concealed weapon?

2. Are there Good Samaritan laws that indemnify the person if they are using the gun "for the welfare and safety of others"?

3. Would/could personal liability, for concealed carry, be covered by a homeowners or auto policy?
 
1. What is the liability to the someone, who is legally carrying, if injury or damage occurs as a result of their possession of a concealed weapon?

Lot's, hence the saying that "The first bullet cost's $100,000"
What you want to think of is if what you are trying to protect is worth $100,000.
Your wife?... Yup
Your kids?... Yup
Your own life?... Yup
Your lawnmower being carried off?... Nope
If you shoot a totally innocent bystander, change that number to "$One Millllliioon Dollars+", and 20 to 40 years with time off for good behaviour if you get along with the guards.

2. Are there Good Samaritan laws that indemnify the person if they are using the gun "for the welfare and safety of others"?

See answer to Question #1.

3. Would/could personal liability, for concealed carry, be covered by a homeowners or auto policy?

This is a good time to say that it appears that different states have different laws with different "fine print". That goes for insurance policies as well.
All you can do when WI goes to CCW carry is to go through the class and do the research that pertains to your state.

Carter
 
1. What is the liability to the someone, who is legally carrying, if injury or damage occurs as a result of their possession of a concealed weapon?
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You are personally responsible for the final resting place of every shot you ever take. You will face civil and possibly criminal charges if you use deadly force when you should not have done so. Even if you were justified in using deadly force, if you kill or injure an innocent, you may face civil and criminal penalties. Criminal charges could include manslaughter.

Some folks who successfully used deadly force to protect themselves from a perp have found themselves at the wrong end of criminal and/or civil prosecution.
2. Are there Good Samaritan laws that indemnify the person if they are using the gun "for the welfare and safety of others"?
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Nope. Just because you "meant well", if you kill or injure an innocent, you may well face jail time and a huge civil judgement.
3. Would/could personal liability, for concealed carry, be covered by a homeowners or auto policy?
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Check your policy and run it by your attorney.
 
M1911, if I understand the castle Doctrine correctly and I'm pretty sure I'm right if the state is smart enough to adopt the castle doctrine along with the CCW there will be a greatly reduced event of this sort of thing happening, unless it was ofcourse a wrongfull use of the weapon then all bets are off.
See the link to the Castle doctrine above inthe first reply, I made.
 
Kelly J:

1) most of us are not in FL and laws vary from state to state. For example, most states require you to retreat if you are outside of your home and it is safe to do so.

2) even in FL, if you injure an innocent during a defensive shooting, you will be liable. For example, suppose Big Bad Bob breaks into your house. You shoot at Big Bad Bob but miss him and your round exits your house, enters the neighbors' house and kills their daughter. You are liable for that shot and will likely face criminal charges (e.g., manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc.) and civil charges.

The Castle Doctrine may prevent Big Bad Bob from suing you, but it won't prevent the neighbors from doing so.
 
Since each State determines its own laws with respect to issuing CHLs, the responses you are going to receive here will be just as varied. All that people can give you is information about the states with which they are familiar, which is what people are doing here.

1. What is the liability to the someone, who is legally carrying, if injury or damage occurs as a result of their possession of a concealed weapon?
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In Texas, there is NO protection under the law if a CHL holder "accidentally" injures or kills a bystander while using deadly force in an otherwise justified situation. If this happens you can just stand by to be indicted and subsequently sued by at least one person.
2. Are there Good Samaritan laws that indemnify the person if they are using the gun "for the welfare and safety of others"?
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Not sure what the nature of this question is meant to imply. Under the Texas use-of-force statutes citizens have protection under the law if they utilize deadly force in order to protect third parties ONLY if there is reasonable belief that the third party is in IMMEDIATE danger of suffering serious bodily injury or death if we do not act. It's the exact same statute that explains when WE can use deadly force in protection of ourselves, but applied to a third party.
Maybe a little clarification of your question would help if that has not answered sufficiently.

3. Would/could personal liability, for concealed carry, be covered by a homeowners or auto policy?
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A good question for your insurance carrier. Since I'm sure there is no law that prevents you from having a gun in your home, maybe your homeowners insurance company would be a good place to start.

Good luck.
 
Gary- check the laws in the state where you're intending to pack the gun. There has been much good general info posted so far, but the laws of civil and criminal procedure can vary quite a bit. state to state.
 
Thanks

I appreciate the input. And I understand that this varies a lot from state to state. That's one of reasons I asked, to try and get an idea what the "range" of law is.

To kinda work backward on comments so far:

3. I checked and in a word "NOPE".

2. Good Samaritan laws protect someone who is administering aid to another, in an emergency situation, from liability or prosecution. For example: I cannot be sued or prosecuted if I injure someone in an attempt to perform CPR, the Heimlich, etc. These laws were enacted because people would not render assistance even when it was warranted for fear of lawsuits. I think (but not sure) most states have a "counter" provision or law that states you must render aid if needed or warranted or you may face prosecution/civil lawsuit: if you are first on the scene of an accident you are legally obligated to render aid. I.e. you can't be prosecuted/sued for helping; you can be prosecuted/sued for NOT helping. Which actually brings up another question:

4. What liability is there if someone, w/ a concealed weapon, does not render aid to another under threat of bodily harm?

1. This is actually two questions. I'm wondering if any state offered protection (Florida's Castle Law seems to offer some) and if there were any stipulations. The "hidden" question hangs on
injury or damage occurs as a result of their possession
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As an example: a person is legally carrying in a place w/ many people. Someone however does see the weapon and as a result of their reaction (they pass out, scream gun and start a panic, etc) injury or damage occurs. What is the liability to the gun carrier?
 
Can I get a permit in another state as a non-resident?
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Off the top of my head, I know Texas and Utah both issue non-resident permits. States will generally not honor non-resident permits from a State with which they have reciprocity if the holder lives in that State to begin with... meaning that if you live in GA, then your TX non-resident CHL is no good in GA...you have to get a GA license....just in case that's where you're headed.
Again, check the laws of the State you are interested in. It takes Texas CHL Instructors a minimum of 10 hours to teach the stuff you are asking questions about, so to expect it all to be answered here is asking a bit much.
if you are first on the scene of an accident you are legally obligated to render aid. I.e. you can't be prosecuted/sued for helping; you can be prosecuted/sued for NOT helping. Which actually brings up another question:
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You are neither required NOR protected under this law if you do not have the requisite training or certification.

What liability is there if someone, w/ a concealed weapon, does not render aid to another under threat of bodily harm?
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I'm curious as to the reasoning behind your line of questioning - since you live in a state that does not have a "shall issue" or "restricted issue" provision then I can only assume that your questions are academic in nature; since I do not think an advocate (or someone involved in the lobbying process) would ask these questions here when there are definitive sources available for half the trouble.

What one State's law is has no real effect on what another State's law is or may turn out to be - therefore I have to admit that after if you are asking these questions merely as a series of "what if's" then I am disinclined to continue answering. All I know is that my little red sensor is flickering.

Stay safe -
 
invssgt
Quote:
Gary- check the laws in the state where you're intending to pack the gun.


Can I get a permit in another state as a non-resident?
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Gary- check the laws in the state where you're intending to pack the gun.

Same answer as before.
 
What liability is there if someone, w/ a concealed weapon, does not render aid to another under threat of bodily harm?
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None! You are under no obligation to come to the aid of another. That is true if they are under danger of death or grave bodily injury from some miscreant and you are carrying.

That is also true if they are injured and you are certified in CPR/first aid. That's right, even though you are certified in CPR/first aid, you are under no obligation to help an injured person. HOWEVER, if you are certified in CPR/first aid and you DO help them, you are obligated to continue that aid (provided it is safe for you to do so) until you are relieved by a suitably responsible party (i.e., until the EMTs/Paramedics show up).

You are correct that most (all?) states have good samaritan laws that protect you if you injure a person to whom you are giving first aid. There is no similar law that I'm aware of that protects you if you shoot an innocent person that you are trying to protect from an assault. If you do that, you are both liable to both criminal and civil prosecution, even though you had good intentions.

In other words, THINK VERY LONG AND HARD before intervening in a third-party dispute. The chances are that you don't know what is going on. It may not be readily apparent who is the good guy and who is the bad guy is (and they may well both be at fault). The consequences of using deadly force could completely destroy your life.

The purpose of my concealed firearm is to protect me and mine. The person I save is not going to provide for my wife in her retirement if I am killed or jailed as a result of my actions. If you consider that selfish, so be it.

I am not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice. I strongly suggest that you consult competent legal counsel familiar with your state laws.
 
I live in the State of Missouri and have a Florida Non Resident CCW that is reconized by Missouri, I did this for two reasons when our law passe there was a min or hang up with the wording of the MO law and two areas were not issuing CCW permits because of this. I applied to Florida, for my CCW and it came through a month before the MO was straightened out, Plus the Florida Permit was easier to get, Cheaper, and was good two years longer.


M1911, I was offering plain information only, which I was under the impression that, that was the reason for the origional Question.
 
KellyJ: I was just trying to point out that such laws vary greatly from state to state. Here in MA (and, in fact, in most states), there is no such presumption that someone who broke into your home is, by definition, a grave threat to your safety.

In MA, I can only use deadly force if I am in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury. That is true even if the perp has broken into my home -- he must be threatening my life before I can use deadly force, even in my home.

And that is true of most (not all) states.
 
pickpocket/guys

First let me say I appreciate your input. The reason for these questions is not to be a "what if fest". I am genuinely interested in learning what the law is (in relatively general terms) in the other CCW states.

If you notice the questions all pertain to liability. You have pretty much answered my questions and essentially it is "your on your own/the liability is entirely the yours".

IF I was to ever carry, I want to know as much about the risks as possible. And I don't mean just the physical risk. I also want to minimize all risk as much as possible.

As far as not having CCW here in We's-taxin', that could change this fall. We have a gubernatorial election, if the Dem who vetoed the bill goes out it will probably leave IL as the last state.

Regarding the out of state permitting - I was totally unaware they did that until now. It is of interest because a few times a year I travel for business, alone, by vehicle. Being able to carry legally could add a certain peace-of-mind.
What one State's law is has no real effect on what another State's law is or may turn out to be
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pickpocket: I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. State legislatures look at each others laws all the time to determine constitutionality. The may not adopt another state's law verbatim, but they do research the laws to see what they are and what the differences would be. They check to see what works and what doesn't.

As you can see by my line of questioning I am very liability conscious. This comes from many years in business and seeing first hand what happens in liability cases.
 
They may not adopt another state's law verbatim, but they do research the laws to see what they are and what the differences would be. They check to see what works and what doesn't.
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Researching criminal case law in other states is one thing - states often DO look at what works in other states. That's why use-of-force statutes are quite similar across the board. However, it just feels as though your interest is more focused on civil matters (your use of the word "liability" is a key indicator) - and in that sense, what one state does really doesn't matter to the next. You really need to be looking at your own state's trends in civil case law to get a realistic picture of what to expect if/when your legislature passes a concealed handgun law.


As you can see by my line of questioning I am very liability conscious. This comes from many years in business and seeing first hand what happens in liability cases.
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Your heart is in the right place but your head is not. In my experience people who are more worried about the possibility of negative outcomes than the responsibilities of carrying a weapon are the ones who risk becoming liabilities themselves if/when the moment of truth arrives. People who are more worried about the legal ramifications of using deadly force than in protecting their lives (or the lives of their loved ones) are missing the point.
This is not an attack - quite the opposite. Concern about liability is all well and good - just be careful that you don't let it cloud your judgement.

Stay safe -
 
There is SERIOUS responsibility involved as is evidenced by the preceeding posts. That is why we practice, practice, practice to reduce the odds of an errant shot. That is why we practice weapon retention, unarmed combat, situation awareness, and why we go through scenarios constantly. The more training you have the better you will respond. I know what my breaking point is for almost any scenario and I know when I will cross the line and possibly kill another human being.

So, to sum up, if you get a CCW and a gun and only take the training that comes in the box with the gun you are asking to get screwed.

Train, train, train, train. Formally, informally, professionally, personally you get the idea.

It is your responsibility just as the bill of rights intended. IF you take the responsibility YOU (and only YOU) are responsible for YOUR actions.
 
Can you imagine the legal nightmare if people were protected from prosecution during an SD shooting and they shot someone else rather than their assailant?

The most obvious difficulties would be the loophole it would create in 1st degree murder...

"Officer, I swear this guy jumped out at me and I shot him, but missed and hit that dude over there who just happens to owe me $2,000 and slept with my girlfriend, then the guy who was going to kill me just ran away before I could do anything"...

Nope - it works just fine the way it is. The wording of the law makes you think twice about whipping the damn thing out and that's exactly what it's supposed to do.
 
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