LGS Shenanigans...

I

imp

New member
So, I've had a hankering for a new rifle, and after debating with myself for a few weeks, decided to go shopping for one. There are two local establishments I frequent, the first did not have one in stock, the second store had 3 in stock. I asked to look at one, flipped the price tag over, and saw that it was a little over $200 more than what Buds lists it for, and I've seen them go for even less on gunbroker.

I ask the owner of the establishment if he could be more competitive, and I was told that if I paid his price, he would throw in a nylon case for free...:(

I asked if I ordered it from Buds and had it shipped, how much would he charge to transfer, and he replied $50...

I was so confused I left without doing anything. I could order it, pay the transfer and shipping and whatnot and still save over $100 over his non-negotiable price....

If I do order it, I will have it transfered from my other local shop.

Anyway, Im not in the retail business, so what do I know? Anyone else had a similar experience? I know its a first for me.
 
Maybe he was hoping your need for immediate gratification would bag him the sale.

What will the other shop charge you for the transfer?
 
I dont understand the thought process either.

I was at a gun show awhile back and saw a stripped AR lower. I had in mind another pistol build so i went over to look at it..... $250 said the tag!!! I really did think the guy had it mismarked. So i start talking to him... Nope thats the correct price.

I forget the mfg but im pretty sure i can order a Spikes for about 1/2 that

He didnt care. Actually told me i should order one online. I guess guys will go to a show and pay stupid prices just cause its there. Not me
 
He had it in stock, right? There's your answer.

You don't seriously expect a retail establishment to charge the same price as an online discounter do you?
 
I never expected him to match buds price. What I did expect was Buds price, plus 50 bucks shipping/transfer fees/ et cetera, plus 10-15% profit for him. Atleast get close. I dont mind a little mark up to keep the local fun shop in business. That being said, I'm not going to pay $500 for a cheap little plinker that should RETAIL around $300.
 
Online sales/no haggle....

I'm in a area where the FFL holders/gun shops have high mark-up & don't really "haggle". Some gun shop staff will wheel & deal. ;)
I was offered a $500.00 M&P 9x19mm full size for $479.00 but couldn't buy it at the time.
There are many tourists/out-of-town business travelers(many from overseas) with $$$ to burn on gun ranges/ammunition so these gun shops-places make serious coin.

I've learn to use most websites like Slickguns.com or GunsAmerica.com. I've found a local FFL holder/US military veteran who deals with transfers for $25.00 :D. My friend bought a Ruger LCR in 2013 & used the FFL holder with 0 problems.

I've paid $50.00 USD for FFL transfers in the 2000s, but no more.

Clyde
 
10-15% profit for him is what you expected. I don't want to beat up on you, but as a fellow small business owner I have to ask - How in the world do you know how much profit that business needs to stay solvent? Don't rag on someone just because they don't conform to your expectation.
 
imp said:
I never expected him to match buds price. What I did expect was Buds price, plus 50 bucks shipping/transfer fees/ et cetera, plus 10-15% profit for him.
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You're overlooking that the local guy may not be able to buy guns for the same price a volume seller such as Bud's can. Bud's can sell some guns for less than what small shops pay for them.
 
^Exactly... Buds deals in volume, and if you watch any particular item they sell on a daily basis for a few weeks, you'll see that the price fluctuates and will go up/down a few dollars or even as much as $10/$20 in a single day. I don't know what causes this, maybe inventory or some computer modeling that looks at prices across a larger sample, but Buds tends to be one of the cheaper places online to buy.

That being said, no brick&mortar store could hope to keep up with them price-wise. That being said, you're extra money to your LGS is staying LOCAL, supporting a local business that is hopefully somewhat active in local politics, supports the local range(s), and contributes back some of the extra money you pay for products to keep your community/state gun-friendly. While I personally tend to buy my firearms online and support a local FFL, I spread my ammo/accessories/reloading/clothing/etc... around at several LGS's. There is one LGS in town I will not visit because the owner is several things the mods will delete if I write here.

Also, $50 for a transfer is a bit high in a gun-friendly state like PA. Lots of places get $15:
http://www.gunbroker.com/ffl/SearchForFFL.aspx?st=State&sv=PA

Bottom line, money isn't everything. I don't mind paying a few dollars more at an LGS when I know I'll see those guys showing up at local competitions, suppporting grass-roots stuff, and fighting the man for me. Not supporting your LGS has second and third tier consequences when they go out of business... starting with the local range closing down, and ending up with the anti's in your area pressuring politicians to enact "ordnances" and what-not because the gun-scene disappeared and there's nobody to fight them.

Here in VA, thankfully we have the VCDL to organize our grass-roots efforts and keep the anti's at bay... they could not do this without the support of LGS's in the state.
 
Bud's can sell some guns for less than what small shops pay for them.
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That's why small gun shops go out of business, or go online as well in order to be competitive. Paying more in order to "support your LGS" is a dying concept, and should be. The bottom line is being able to compete. People are getting more used to ordering online and waiting a bit vs. instant gratification because a product is in stock locally.

Bottom line, money isn't everything. I don't mind paying a few dollars more at an LGS when I know I'll see those guys showing up at local competitions, suppporting grass-roots stuff, and fighting the man for me.
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Yeah I remember when people who felt this way tried to stop the WalMart stores from closing down the mom and pop shops that just couldn't compete. "C'mon folks, these are our neighbors and they help the community!" Folks without much money still went for the better price, and the mom and pops shut their doors. Turned out WalMart did more to support the local economy anyway, so, while this sounds like a nice concept, if fails in the real world.

Here in VA, thankfully we have the VCDL to organize our grass-roots efforts and keep the anti's at bay... they could not do this without the support of LGS's in the state.
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I'm in VA too, and am a VCDL member. How many of the 5000+ contributing members are associated with an LGS? Do you have any proof to support your claim that they are the foundation for our freedom?
 
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10-15% profit for him is what you expected. I don't want to beat up on you, but as a fellow small business owner I have to ask - How in the world do you know how much profit that business needs to stay solvent? Don't rag on someone just because they don't conform to your expectation.
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Another small business owner here and I agree 100%!!!

A 15% mark up on a $300 weapon leaves $45 GROSS profit. Subtract owner pay, employee's payroll, rent/mortgage on store front, electric/utility bills, security system bill, insurance, taxes, etc... and then figure how many guns he would need to sell per day in order to pay all those bills.
 
A 15% mark up on a $300 weapon leaves $45 GROSS profit. Subtract owner pay, employee's payroll, rent/mortgage on store front, electric/utility bills, security system bill, insurance, taxes, etc... and then figure how many guns he would need to sell per day in order to pay all those bills.
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Do you sell only local, or do you sell online too (website, gunbroker, armslist, etc.)? What is the bread and butter that keeps you solvent?
 
Do you sell only local, or do you sell online too (website, gunbroker, armslist, etc.)? What is the bread and butter that keeps you solvent?
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Just to be clear, I haven't owned or worked in a gun store since the early 90's and my current business is providing a service, not retail sales. What is your background?

LGS's make their bread and butter money from used weapons, accessories, reloading supplies and most importantly, high quality customer service.
 
A 15% mark up on a $300 weapon leaves $45 GROSS profit. Subtract owner pay, employee's payroll, rent/mortgage on store front, electric/utility bills, security system bill, insurance, taxes, etc... and then figure how many guns he would need to sell per day in order to pay all those bills.
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That's ASSuming that $300 is what the shop paid for it. I'd wager a good bottle of Scotch that although Buds can undercut many places, they also aren't selling guns at wholesale, especially considering that almost every price they quote includes shipping.
 
I say this as a small business owner...

I really don't understand how anyone can suggest that we should pay some small gun shop a 66% premium because he's a "small business" or a "local guy".

Tough luck. Free enterprise rules the day. He can write a price tag for whatever he wants but I'm not paying a 66% premium. I'm the buyer, I set the prices.

A $50 transfer fee is STUPID. Prices in this area are high and I don't recall running across one who charged more than $35 for a transfer, most are $25.

I try to go to local shops every time I buy a gun. I almost never actually buy one there. Unfortunately, it's not even their fault sometimes, it's sales tax. I don't mind paying $50 more or so on a $500-$700 gun but no way am I paying $75 extra, minimum, PLUS TAX to the bottom line.

Most times, local shop are priced $100-$150 higher than Bud's and then 8% more on top for tax. That's $200 on a $500 gun.

No way, no how.

Bud's Gun Shop didn't start out as one of the largest and best online retailers. They started as a local gun shop and had to compete for business. For crying out loud, Wal*Mart started as a local store and had to compete. Now they're huge because they WON, not because somebody paid them double prices because they were "local".
 
^^^ +1 That's what I'm talking about....


Just to be clear, I haven't owned or worked in a gun store since the early 90's and my current business is providing a service, not retail sales. What is your background?
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Oh, I thought you were speaking as a LGS. I'm not an LGS, but I have an FFL03 C&R collector license. I collect so I'm a "buyer". My "gun" buying techniques never favor LGS's over online Milsurp dealers or local face to face deals. For $30 (the 3yr FFL fee) I avoid transfer fees as well. I'm all about the bottom line cost. Some aren't. I get that.

LGS's make their bread and butter money from used weapons, accessories, reloading supplies and most importantly, high quality customer service.
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I get way better prices online for all that stuff.
 
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I'd wager a good bottle of Scotch that although Buds can undercut many places, they also aren't selling guns at wholesale, especially considering that almost every price they quote includes shipping.
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They're about 5-8% over wholesale. Most local dealers (I know things are different in restrictive markets) do their best to compete, but it's hard to pay a good staff with those kinds of margins.

Paying more in order to "support your LGS" is a dying concept, and should be.
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Fine. Then don't complain when the guys at the LGS don't take the time to show you how to fix something or give you advice. It's a two-way street.

I'm not suggesting anyone pay ridiculous premiums, but if you expect a product at pennies over wholesale, something's got to give.
 
Tom Servo said:
I'm not suggesting anyone pay ridiculous premiums, but if you expect a product at pennies over wholesale, something's got to give.
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This is true too. Unfortunately, folks want something for nothing. Individuals should be willing to pay for what's valuable to them.


I think there might actually be two different "local gun shops" we're talking about here. There's the dying breed of shops with good knowledge, good inventory and good employees and then there's what passes for a "gun shop" around here, which is some guy who likes guns and typically sells them as a secondary hobby of sorts, next to his wood stoves or car sales/repair center. My area is filled with the latter, with none of the former to my knowledge.

The local dealers would be sad to know that the only value they have for me is to do transfers. With 66+% price premiums and less knowledge than me on just about any firearms technical or legal related question, besides the typical questionable ethics, I'm not about to go out of my way to help them be profitable.
 
The advantage of having a purchasing customer relationship with your local gun store is they are there to answer questions, take care of problems, and yes, possibly fix things right on the spot.

I will pay a bit more to buy local and it has paid off for me numerous times with great deals on guns at other times, a fantastic deal on some new in the box ammunition included in a gun trade, special orders, and finding hard to find parts and magazines. I guess I like the face to face interaction, I like knowing that if there is an issue I can go right back to that same person and get it taken care of.

But then again, I grew up in a small family business and I will go that way when I can when I make a purchase.
 
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