Levergun suitable bullets

G

glenspen

New member
I just bought my first rifle, a new model 1873 Winchester in .357, and I was unsure about what bullets I can load it up with.

I read that the pointed bullets can strike the round in front and cause big problems but I wondered if that was also true with round top type bullets?

Right now i'm sticking to Magtech SJSP rounds because they have flat tops

Any advice is greatly appreciated as I'm very new to firearms and this is my plinker rifle to entertain guests and shoot rabbits
 
Pointy bullets can cause discharges in the mag tube. If the recoil is heavy enough. Mind you, there aren't a lot of pointy .357" bullets. An RN will sit with it's end on the primer in front of it. Use SWC's and you'll be fine.
 
I just did a quick google image search for an example. Not sure which actual cartridges these are but the last few on the right (7 and 8) would be questionable and the others would all work just fine.

53984.jpeg
 
In theory pointed bullets could, but I've not ever heard of it actually happening. I don't think you'll find any 357 mag ammo that would be a problem anyway.
 
Howdy

Now maybe somebody who actually owns a couple of 1873 rifles should chime in.

DO NOT use pointed bullets in a rifle chambered for 'pistol cartridges' with a tubular magazine. DO NOT use conventional round nosed bullets in a rifle with a tubular magazine. Your best bet is bullets that are Round Nosed Flat Point. RNFP. Or Flat Point Round Nose, same thing. Semi-Wadcutters are also good, but because of the square shoulder they can have feeding problems. Truncated Cone bullets are also good.

It is not the force of recoil that is likely to cause a bullet nose to fire a primer it is sitting against, it is the slamming that happens every time the carrier strips one round out of the magazine and the follower slams the entire column of cartridges back all at once. Much more force is exerted that way than in recoil.

Comparing a tubular magazine 30-30 to a rifle chambered for 45 Colt, 44-40, or 357 Mag is comparing apples to oranges. Because of the shape of the bottleneck 30-30 round, the cartridges tend to stagger themselves in the magazine, bullets do not rest against primers. Completely different story with straight cased 45 Colt or 357 Mag, or even 44-40 or 38-40. Bullets do sit directly against the primer in front of them.

Has it happened before?

You bet it has.

Particularly with the 1860 Henry if a careless shooter looses his grasp on the follower handle and allows the spring to slam the follower down on a column of rounds in the magazine. Rifles have been ruined and shooters have been injured with brass fragments in their hides.

Left to right in this photo are a 45 Colt, 44-40, and 38-40, all loaded with Round Nosed Flat Point Bullets. Or Flat Point Round Nosed Bullets, same thing.

45colt44-4038-40_zps53d7a298.jpg



The 38 Special round 2nd from the right in this photo is loaded with a Truncated Cone bullet. Excellent choice of bullets. The 357 Mag with the Semi-Wadcutter is OK, but as I said, sometimes the sharp paper cutting corner can cause problems feeding in a lever gun. Sometimes the corner will catch on the edge of the chamber. More common with tilting carrier rifles such as the Winchester Model 1892, less of a problem with the straight feeding carrier of a toggle link rifle such as the 1860 Henry, Winchester Model 1866, or Winchester Model 1873.

38SW38LC38SP357MAG_zpsbd9d287f.jpg




If you don't load your own you can buy commercial Cowboy Ammunition which is almost always loaded with RNFP bullets for exactly the reasons I have stated.
 
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Great information thanks. I'm so glad I didn't feed that box of 38 RN rounds that I bought for my S&W 686

I don't reload so any advice on a good ammunition brand and place to buy good 38 and 357 plinking ammo would be appreciated

I've been buying from my local gunshop but wanted to save some money and buy bulk online. My friend buys from Freedom Munitions but a search online shows mixed reviews for their ammo
 
I went online last night to order some ammo and was blown away by the huge choice, I ended up going with some 125grain 38 (winchester) ammo for plinking, and some 125 grain 357, some 158 grain 357 (Black hills cowboy action) and some 180 grain 357 Buffalo Bore.

My plan is to load 3 of each in the tube (its a 24 inch barrel that holds 12 357s) and shoot 38 plinker for the first 3 then 357 125 grain, then 158 grain, then 180 grain and so hopefully after emptying the rifle of it's 12 shots I will be able to feel and see a difference in the rounds. I was thinking that testing back to back like this might be fun!

It's a shame that people seem to have problems with Freedom Munitions...their 38's are super cheap
 
Problem w/ 38SP in a `73 Win is that the OAL must be 1.53+(sometimes ++) in order not to jam feeding into the action.
I've found that MagTech LRN's will work..., but then there's that pesky "R" in the last 3 ltrs. :rolleyes:
 
glenspen: My Son and I have several Lever Action Rifles in Pistol Caliber Cartridges . And IMHO we find that Hard Cast LRNFP cast bullets work the best for us. They just always seem to feed much smoother for us. And one of Our Lever Action Rifles is a Uberti Model 1873 in 45LC.
ken
 
I shoot both Zero 158grn JSP and X-treme plated 158grn bullets in my 357mag loads in both my Rossi leverguns as well as my Uberti SA Cav pistol. The levergun loads are full power loads with H110 and Lil'Gun and work flawlessly with a strong crimp from a Lee FCD as a roll crimp won't work with a plated bullet. With close to 10,000rds through my Rossis, I'm very pleased as accuracy has be very good. I shoot my 24" Rossi rifle at steel plates at 300yds with both bullets. I use a light load of Unique in the pistol with them.
 
I just bought my first rifle, a new model 1873 Winchester in .357.....
Click to expand...
^^^ This ^^^ is the OP issue at hand
The `73 eats only certain length cartridges,
and gets real picky if there are deep SWC edges.
 
cpt-t - Thanks for the advice, I'll try some Hard Cast LRNFP and see how they feed.

mehavey - I'm not sure I understood any of what point you are making? Are you saying that a lever action is not a good first rifle? It seems that once you find a suitable cartridge, it is a pretty straightforward gun to own and maintain

I have an appointment with a gunsmith tomorrow, he specializes in lever actions and he's going to talk me through the cleaning and maintenance of the rifle
 
38 WCs do not feed in my Marlin 1894C, everything else does.
IMHO the CAS/SASS shooters are the ones to ask, given the volume they shoot.
 
Are you saying that a lever action is not a good first rifle?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not.
I've several `94s, `95s, and two more 73s.

BUT... that 357Mag`73 is a special cat that needs cartridges that (a) are flat-nosed, (b) have minimal wadcutter ledges*, and (b) whose length (be it 38 or 357) is between 1.53-1.60" (no more and no less).
Within those constraints, it's very useful/easy to load for.

*
See http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,54306.0.html
Note that 357 is sliiiightly more forgiving.

.
 
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Not to turn this thread around, what is the best OAL for a Winchester 94, AE, in .44 Magnum? I find some rounds feed, some don't.

Oh, and Driftwood, great post. I didn't know about the slamming that happens every time the carrier strips one round out of the magazine and the follower slams the entire column of cartridges back all at once! Never occurred to me!

Thanks,

Deaf
 
^^^ This ^^^ is the OP issue at hand
The `73 eats only certain length cartridges,
and gets real picky if there are deep SWC edges.
Click to expand...
And not only in 357mag. I have both an Uberti 1873 rifle and Uberti 1866 carbine in 45 Colt and while plated 255grn X-Treme bullets feed perfectly, both are picky with lead 255grn Elmer Keith style bullets because of their shoulders.

Missouri Bullets Lead 45 Colt bullets with smooth transition:

cowboy1.jpg


Missouri Bullets Lead 45 Colt Elmer Keith style bullets with small shoulder:

cowboy9.jpg
 
Are you saying that a lever action is not a good first rifle?
Click to expand...

OK here's the deal.

This first photo is looking down on a 44-40 cartridge on the carrier of an Uberti replica of the Winchester Model 1873. The carrier is in the 'down position', it has not risen up to feed a round into the chamber yet. You can see the rim of the next round in the magazine sticking out a little bit. The toggle link rifles, the Winchester Models 1866 and 1873, as well as the Henry Model 1860, have no cartridge stop. What that means is the only thing preventing a round from squirting out of the magazine is the round already on the carrier. You can see the rim of the round on the carrier is sitting back against a vertical wall in the frame.

Still with me?

Here's where it gets tricky. If the round on the carrier is too short, it allows too much of the next round in the magazine to stick out onto the carrier. This will block the carrier from rising and jam up the gun. There is a bevel cut onto the carrier that will shove the next round in line back into the magazine, so everything works fine. But if your ammo is too short, the round on the carrier will allow too much of the next round to protrude out, past the bevel and the bevel will not push it back in. This will jam up the gun.

You can see in my photo that just the rim of the next round is sticking out of the magazine. That is the ideal amount. The carrier will have no problem shoving that round back into the magazine so the carrier can rise up and feed a round into the chamber.

1873%20carrier%20w%2044-40%20round_zpseonkxrtx.jpg






Other lever guns, such as the Winchester Model 1892 have a cartridge stop mounted on the side of the frame. The cartridge stop is a spring loaded piece. It keeps errant rounds in the magazine where they belong, and when the carrier, which tilts to feed, rises up it pushes the cartridge stop out of the way so the next round can feed out of the magazine. This makes rifles with this feature less 'overall length dependent'.

Sorry, I took this photo of the carrier on a '92 rising a long time ago and it does not show the cartridge stop. Trust me, it is in there doing its job.

1892%20carrier%20w%2044-40%20round%2002_zpsfstxvmve.jpg




Just one of the many differences between the old toggle link rifles and the more modern ones designed by John M Browning.
 
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