I agree, when I first got the levergun I saw all the cool setups and scopes etc, but after shooting it a little bit, you'll see why its the perfect gun for ironsights. It's quick on target and quick to shoot. I am more interested in some of the iron sight upgrades than I ever would be on a scope. It's the perfect mid range gun as it is, but I guess if I had a bigger caliber and decided to hunt up to 200 yards, I might have a different opinion.
lever action
- Thread starter rebel66
- Start date
stagpanther
New member
Hands down a 16" 44 mag lightweight carbine. Even neutron bomb strength loads are fun to fire out of a lever gun. Some don't approve of mounting a scope atop a traditional lever gun, but you'll get over that quickly shooting MOA or less at 100. : )
Bruce_Hunter00
Inactive
Marlin .44 Lever
Last fall I purchased a Marlin .44 from Grabagun good price.
Out of the box is would not cycle any ammo it would jam.
I called Marlin and they said send it in ,,it would take about 6 weeks before they could work on it. The tech from Marlin said they had problems with cycling FTX even with the red follow designed for FTX.
I owned an older 30-30 Marlin and the action is similar and
I wanted to use it for late deer so I decided to look at it my self.
Wow was I disappointed in the workmanship the bolt had some huge burs where the lever moves it back.
I filled off the burs polished all place where I could see places of wear or too tight. Look up leaver action tuning. After about 3 hours of work the gun cycles well from .44 special to Hornady FTX so from the shortest to the longest.
I like the way the Marlin ejects the cartages out the side not the top. I have a scope on my rifle.
Last fall I purchased a Marlin .44 from Grabagun good price.
Out of the box is would not cycle any ammo it would jam.
I called Marlin and they said send it in ,,it would take about 6 weeks before they could work on it. The tech from Marlin said they had problems with cycling FTX even with the red follow designed for FTX.
I owned an older 30-30 Marlin and the action is similar and
I wanted to use it for late deer so I decided to look at it my self.
Wow was I disappointed in the workmanship the bolt had some huge burs where the lever moves it back.
I filled off the burs polished all place where I could see places of wear or too tight. Look up leaver action tuning. After about 3 hours of work the gun cycles well from .44 special to Hornady FTX so from the shortest to the longest.
I like the way the Marlin ejects the cartages out the side not the top. I have a scope on my rifle.
I have often said on this forum that ......
......the best value in deer caliber guns are often found on the used/consignment racks.
For those of you looking for older model 336's, Marlin built these rifles for various chain stores in the 1980's ..... and put the store brand names on them. They can be labeled as J.C. Higgins (Sears) Model 45 and Model 50, the Montgomery Ward Western Field Model 740-A EMN, the J.C. Penney Foremost Model 3040, and the K-Mart Model 30TK. Before that, they sold these same rifles as the Glenfield line- Models 30, 30A, 30AS or 30AW. They have stained birch stocks and a bit lower level of metal finishing than the standard Marlin 336's of their day, but from what I have seen, they are still superior in the fit and finish department than what Marlin is putting out today. My daughter has a Marlin 30AS, and it's been a great gun. We did put a Burris 2X handgun scope on a LeverScout mount and the lowest rings we could find ......still had to raise the comb about 3/4 of an inch with some foam padding under the cartridge sleeve on the stock to get the sight plane right. It works really well for her.
Deer caliber guns get shot very little, for the most part: guys may put less than a box through them in a year, then it's back in the closet for 11 months.
The one thing with used lever guns to watch out for is a worn/damaged crown from poor cleaning practices- most guys are too lazy to remove the bolts and clean from the breech, and won't use a muzzle protector, either, so their cleaning rods beat the hell out of the rifling right at the muzzle ..... that's not unfixable, but it ain't free, either.
Other problems might be lead fouling- the micro-groove barrels are not real cast boolit friendly, as a rule ...... also fixable, as it copper fouling.
These problems should never happen in this, the Age of Information ..... but like I said, people are lazy ...... it's easier to just buy another gun than properly maintain the one they have!
......the best value in deer caliber guns are often found on the used/consignment racks.
For those of you looking for older model 336's, Marlin built these rifles for various chain stores in the 1980's ..... and put the store brand names on them. They can be labeled as J.C. Higgins (Sears) Model 45 and Model 50, the Montgomery Ward Western Field Model 740-A EMN, the J.C. Penney Foremost Model 3040, and the K-Mart Model 30TK. Before that, they sold these same rifles as the Glenfield line- Models 30, 30A, 30AS or 30AW. They have stained birch stocks and a bit lower level of metal finishing than the standard Marlin 336's of their day, but from what I have seen, they are still superior in the fit and finish department than what Marlin is putting out today. My daughter has a Marlin 30AS, and it's been a great gun. We did put a Burris 2X handgun scope on a LeverScout mount and the lowest rings we could find ......still had to raise the comb about 3/4 of an inch with some foam padding under the cartridge sleeve on the stock to get the sight plane right. It works really well for her.
Deer caliber guns get shot very little, for the most part: guys may put less than a box through them in a year, then it's back in the closet for 11 months.
The one thing with used lever guns to watch out for is a worn/damaged crown from poor cleaning practices- most guys are too lazy to remove the bolts and clean from the breech, and won't use a muzzle protector, either, so their cleaning rods beat the hell out of the rifling right at the muzzle ..... that's not unfixable, but it ain't free, either.
Other problems might be lead fouling- the micro-groove barrels are not real cast boolit friendly, as a rule ...... also fixable, as it copper fouling.
These problems should never happen in this, the Age of Information ..... but like I said, people are lazy ...... it's easier to just buy another gun than properly maintain the one they have!
Tony Z- It's on the side of the barrel right next to the receiver:
Lever guns really do work better with peep sights. Any accuracy you gain using a scope is lost by picking your cheek up off the stock to use the scope. Try closing your eyes and mounting the gun, then open your eyes, you shouldn't have to move your head at all to see through the sights. The Williams FP-336 rear sight with a Skinner front sight is thge best option.
Lever guns really do work better with peep sights. Any accuracy you gain using a scope is lost by picking your cheek up off the stock to use the scope. Try closing your eyes and mounting the gun, then open your eyes, you shouldn't have to move your head at all to see through the sights. The Williams FP-336 rear sight with a Skinner front sight is thge best option.
I put Skinner front and rear sights on my Marlin, and even those sat high enough (higher than the factory buckhorn and front sight) that I wasn't getting a good cheek weld, so it's not a given that peeps will always give ideal sight alignment.
Eventually I mounted a Leupold FX-II 2.5x20mm scope on a Warne base and Weaver Top Mount rings (the lowest possible combination I could find), and the line of sight is 1/4" higher than the Skinner sights I'd had on. I was going to need some sort of comb riser either way. It currently wears this Accu-Riser. It's kind of dopey looking, but it works well, stays put, doesn't make the top of the comb wider like some options do, doesn't add much weight, and it can be removed in a few seconds without any lasting changes to the stock.
I found a "Ted Williams" circa 1956 I think, which is really a Winchester '94 in .30-30. Beautiful wood and an enamel finish. Paid $250 for it. Action is smooth as butter on glass and will shoot 1" groups at 50yds all day with open sights. I mentioned Ted Williams because they are just a "sheep in wolf's clothing". Winchester sold by Sears, and usually on the discount rack because of the Sears Ted Williams name.
jstanfield103
New member
The Rossi are top eject which I do not care for. Browning makes their stuff to much out of country. The Marlins 336 if it is for deer hunting is a great choice and should easily be found used for around $400.00 for a good one.
With respect to lever guns with scopes on them (or any gun stocked for low irons that has been equipped with a scope!), is not just accuracy, but speed of target aquisition: without a good, repeatable cheek weld, you'll be moving your head around trying to see the target centered through the scope while simultaneously moving the gun around to put it on target. Too complicated for any accuracy at speed. You should be looking throught the scope when you shoulder the gun.
Add that to the fact that a good cheek weld makes for less percieved recoil (does not let the gun get a runnin' start at your face) by allowing gun and shooter to recoil as a unit. Getting smacked in the face by your gunstock on each shot will reduce practical accuracy by a huge amount, because it will induce flinching and discourage practice.
Handgun scopes work, used as intended.
Stocks work, used as intended.
Use anything wrong, and it won't work as intended.
stagpanther
New member
I practice with mine. And I shoot exclusively high power loads; 24 +/- grs win 296/h110 245-265 gr bullets at high velocities out of the rig below. I experience virtually none of the problems you describe, and in fact often get better groups than guys with their remmie etc bolt actions the next lane over at 100 yds.
I would concede that a good set of irons (and I've tried just about all of em) does allow bringing the gun quicker to bear--but that's not the same thing as greater precision. Unless you're Jerry Mucilek and are trying to drop the entire herd of deer in under 2 seconds, I don't see a clear-cut advantage of irons over scopes, especially in my case where due to eyesight issues I cannot even see the front sight or target in focus unaided.
I also agree about the cheek weld thing and admit I may loose a second or so over someone with irons--but when I'm out hunting in zero degree weather wearing thick balaclava hats and clothing I've found most of that precision bench rest stuff flies out the window.
I would concede that a good set of irons (and I've tried just about all of em) does allow bringing the gun quicker to bear--but that's not the same thing as greater precision. Unless you're Jerry Mucilek and are trying to drop the entire herd of deer in under 2 seconds, I don't see a clear-cut advantage of irons over scopes, especially in my case where due to eyesight issues I cannot even see the front sight or target in focus unaided.
I also agree about the cheek weld thing and admit I may loose a second or so over someone with irons--but when I'm out hunting in zero degree weather wearing thick balaclava hats and clothing I've found most of that precision bench rest stuff flies out the window.
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My .02
I think the main question is "Are you going to hunt with it"? And if so, any shots over 50 yards? If so, I would suggest the 336 in 30/30. It is all I hunt with. I totally agree with the posters that said don't buy new - find a gently used older 336 with JM on it. Heck, you should be able to find one in any well-stocked LGS. I see them used here in Bama WITH the scope on them for around $350 usually. Quality of used scopes people put on them before pawning/selling however can vary a lot. Something not mentioned yet is that if you shoot the Hornady Leverevolution 30/30 out of it, it will bring it up to "almost" 308 performance (not quite, however - OK - "in the ballpark out of a short barrel"). It will certainly make it the hunting equal of the Savage rifles mentioned already (which I like also).
J
I think the main question is "Are you going to hunt with it"? And if so, any shots over 50 yards? If so, I would suggest the 336 in 30/30. It is all I hunt with. I totally agree with the posters that said don't buy new - find a gently used older 336 with JM on it. Heck, you should be able to find one in any well-stocked LGS. I see them used here in Bama WITH the scope on them for around $350 usually. Quality of used scopes people put on them before pawning/selling however can vary a lot. Something not mentioned yet is that if you shoot the Hornady Leverevolution 30/30 out of it, it will bring it up to "almost" 308 performance (not quite, however - OK - "in the ballpark out of a short barrel"). It will certainly make it the hunting equal of the Savage rifles mentioned already (which I like also).
J
stagpanther
New member
Maybe went out to get popcorn during intermission? 
Have you tried the same gun with a cheek pad? Or are just just convinced that the way you have been shooting the gun, as is, is good enough, and need not be improved upon, because that's the way you've always done it?
With enough practice, even less than optimum procedures can work. That does not make them the best procedures. I should know: I used to advocate carrying a 1911 in condition 3 (do a search- it's pretty amusing) .... and practiced drawing and racking to the point I was faster than some of the people I was shooting against at IDPA ..... but I was never as fast as all the guys that were doing it right, and until I started practicing and doing the right way (C&L), my draw times did not improve.
With a low power forward mounted/IER scope and a stock that fits the sight plane, you should be able to get the gun on target just as fast or faster than irons ( especially traditional leaf-type irons). If you practice, you just shoulder the rifle while looking at the target with both eyes open and the crosshairs appear on it. Nothing to line up. Simple is smooth, smooth is fast.
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stagpanther
New member
I appreciate your comments and advice. I do in fact have a loopie FX II IER which I mounted on my rossi--just for grins I decided to swap the Nikon from my pistol and found that it is even better and just as fast to acquire--if not faster since the objective is bigger. The real issue is that the rossi is very limited in what you can do in terms of mounts due to needing to use the dovetail slots and keeping the breech clear due to top ejection. I'm sure my hold is not text-book correct and could use improvement.
Firing high-power 44 mag loads to me is all about where the stock butt is positioned on the shoulder--the rossi has a fairly odd angle on the butt-plate--and the steel strap is not there to help with recoil.