Night Watch
New member
No, you are entirely correct. The Hague Convention of 1899 banned the use of hollowpoint point ammunition in warfare. (This prohibition originally included, both, rifle and pistol ammunition.) Today, however, hollowpoint point bullets are most often used in low velocity pistol ammunition; and, it is primarily to pistol ammunition that the Hague restrictions presently seem to apply.
(By the way, the United States is NOT an original signator to the Hague Protocols. Good thing, too, because nowadays both Western and Eastern armies presently allow for the use of hollowpoint bullet designs in their military rifles; and, as far as I’m concerned, modern high velocity, ‘tumbling’ or, ‘fragmenting’ rifle bullets are far more destructive than the old British, ‘Dum-Dum’ ever could be!)
http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html
‘Overpenetration’? Listen, you and I have a better chance of winning the PowerBall lottery than we do of either getting hit, or hitting someone with an over penetrating pistol round! In all my years I’m only aware of 3 instances where something like this has actually occurred; and, in two of those events, good old fashioned human stupidity or a complete indifference to someone else’s wellbeing played a dominant role.
Let’s talk about something else, too: Exactly what is the logical correlation between a RN/FMJ pistol round penetrating to 26 inches in ballistic gelatin, and a JHP pistol bullet going no more than 12-14 inches? IN THE REAL WORLD could any of this actually matter? If you miss bone, you miss bone. If you make a peripheral hit, the round is going to go sailing on through all the same!
Neither do I buy into the argument that if a hollowpoint point bullet makes it all the way through the target, then, it’s going to create two oversized wounds. I’ve done a lot of hunting in my time; and, I’ve yet to see any relatively low velocity hollowpoint bullet perform this way. The most likely result is for a low velocity hollowpoint to remain inside the torso area.
On the other hand, large RN/FMJ bullets will often punch, both, an entrance and an exit wound, tear up heavy muscle and bust bone in the process. Large RN/FMJ bullets seem to do a better job of traumatizing skeletal structures; and, my own research indicates that this is an unduly important factor with all relatively slow moving pistol ammunition.
With RN/FMJ bullets there is no, ‘gray area’ about whether or not the intended expansion is actually taking place – The stories about JHP’s not expanding according to their design are legion! Neither is there any worry about the bullet’s hollow cavity plugging up with the target’s clothing; something that is always a concern in northern climates!
Where pistol ammunition is concerned I remain a proponent of: large, heavy, slow moving bullets with a broad frontal area.
Ideally I want a bullet that also isn't going to be easily defeated by a barricade; and, I want to be able to fire these bullets from a pistol with a slow recoil impulse, too. For me this implies the use of a 45 acp handgun. (Which, even after 40 years of use, I continue to have a great deal of confidence in, and remain able to fire very well at speed!)
If it's my life that's on the line, I'm not about to trust my fate to: small, light, super fast, and zippy, 'wide mouth' or 'flower petal' pistol bullet designs. ALL PISTOL BULLETS ARE CAPABLE OF PENETRATING TO AN EXCESSIVE DEPTH AND/OR OF, ‘PUNCHING THROUGH’ THE TARGET. The only truly effective way to eliminate overpenetration issues with pistol bullets is to stop using firearms!
(And, quite frankly, I don’t see this happening to any executive branch of either state or federal government at anytime soon!)
(By the way, the United States is NOT an original signator to the Hague Protocols. Good thing, too, because nowadays both Western and Eastern armies presently allow for the use of hollowpoint bullet designs in their military rifles; and, as far as I’m concerned, modern high velocity, ‘tumbling’ or, ‘fragmenting’ rifle bullets are far more destructive than the old British, ‘Dum-Dum’ ever could be!)
http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html
‘Overpenetration’? Listen, you and I have a better chance of winning the PowerBall lottery than we do of either getting hit, or hitting someone with an over penetrating pistol round! In all my years I’m only aware of 3 instances where something like this has actually occurred; and, in two of those events, good old fashioned human stupidity or a complete indifference to someone else’s wellbeing played a dominant role.
Let’s talk about something else, too: Exactly what is the logical correlation between a RN/FMJ pistol round penetrating to 26 inches in ballistic gelatin, and a JHP pistol bullet going no more than 12-14 inches? IN THE REAL WORLD could any of this actually matter? If you miss bone, you miss bone. If you make a peripheral hit, the round is going to go sailing on through all the same!
Neither do I buy into the argument that if a hollowpoint point bullet makes it all the way through the target, then, it’s going to create two oversized wounds. I’ve done a lot of hunting in my time; and, I’ve yet to see any relatively low velocity hollowpoint bullet perform this way. The most likely result is for a low velocity hollowpoint to remain inside the torso area.
On the other hand, large RN/FMJ bullets will often punch, both, an entrance and an exit wound, tear up heavy muscle and bust bone in the process. Large RN/FMJ bullets seem to do a better job of traumatizing skeletal structures; and, my own research indicates that this is an unduly important factor with all relatively slow moving pistol ammunition.
With RN/FMJ bullets there is no, ‘gray area’ about whether or not the intended expansion is actually taking place – The stories about JHP’s not expanding according to their design are legion! Neither is there any worry about the bullet’s hollow cavity plugging up with the target’s clothing; something that is always a concern in northern climates!
Where pistol ammunition is concerned I remain a proponent of: large, heavy, slow moving bullets with a broad frontal area.
Ideally I want a bullet that also isn't going to be easily defeated by a barricade; and, I want to be able to fire these bullets from a pistol with a slow recoil impulse, too. For me this implies the use of a 45 acp handgun. (Which, even after 40 years of use, I continue to have a great deal of confidence in, and remain able to fire very well at speed!)
If it's my life that's on the line, I'm not about to trust my fate to: small, light, super fast, and zippy, 'wide mouth' or 'flower petal' pistol bullet designs. ALL PISTOL BULLETS ARE CAPABLE OF PENETRATING TO AN EXCESSIVE DEPTH AND/OR OF, ‘PUNCHING THROUGH’ THE TARGET. The only truly effective way to eliminate overpenetration issues with pistol bullets is to stop using firearms!
(And, quite frankly, I don’t see this happening to any executive branch of either state or federal government at anytime soon!)