lets say I know why army recruitment is down

So the U.S.M.C. is out 'cause you don't want to be a "killing machine" and yet you want to be special forces?

What do you think you will be doing in the special forces? (Hint: They don't need Navy SEALs to talk issues out with the enemy)

Think about it! Be damn sure of what you want to do before you sign away x number of years of your life.
 
Let me reprhase it again. I do not want to be a marine because I would much rather act on my own senses other then being commanded around. Marines are always the first to die. Everyone knows that. If it werent for marines we would be living in a horrible world right now.

In the special forces you are a killing machine but killing the enemy is not the only factor. You have to keep in mind that Special Forces have the oppurtunity to make their own decisions and theres much more strategy to it. Most of the time your recovering valueable information for your country or doing underwater demolitions.

The risk are about the same if not riskier being special ops. I don't know if im explaning myself correctly but there is a major difference between the two and the way deciscions are made.

Ive looked very deep into the details of whats involved. Thanks for giving me advice to look into it better but its already been done.

I don't just want to be trained for a short amount of time and thrown to the front of the battle lines. Special Operations training is much more sophisticated then marine training. To say the two are the same is like comparing apples and oranges.
 
Patrick Kelly...

I like the advice you gave your son.

A couple of homeschool stories. The first and most interesting is a friend of mine that was an army helicopter pilot. He flew Apaches, Chinooks, and was trained on others. He homeschools his kids. This guy has been a leader wherever he went. Army officer, president of his med school class, chief resident of his program in family medicine. He spends a lot of time with the kids. He teaches the kids things that most families don't ever teach their children. In addition to academics (the kids test out several grades higher than their peer groups), he teaches them to weld, marksmanship, wood working, and about the Lord Jesus Christ. He also bought 100 acres that has a berm outside the back of the house that is under construction. In between study breaks he will have a shooting bench the kids can shoot from. He also is starting in a PT program for his kids. I know this sounds weird. But this guy is the star of whatever arena he enters and his kids are learning from him, about character, etc.... This puts education back in the hands of the parents. It allows him to rear his children rather than a bunch of liberal teachers that don't have time for the kids. By the way, public schools stink. The "professionals" are not getting the job done. I can say this with a dad that was a principal, and mother that was a kindergarten teacher. His kids are adjusted and participate in local sports leagues, etc.... Most homeschool families are smarter than the average folks on the street and most give a darn about their kids compared with the average. :)
 
I do not want to be a marine because I would much rather act on my own senses other then being commanded around.
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Maybe you had better look a little deeper. The only member of the military who is not "commanded around" is the CIC. He has license to act on his senses. The other folks are commanded.
 
Everyone IS COMMANDED! But most of the time Marines aren't allowed to make their own decisions. Do you get what im saying? Theres always a primary objective they different ways they handle situations is is the reason id choose SF over Marines any day.

Your trying to make a simple kind comment of mind turn into an all out arguement. You have to respect my opinion. Beforehand I did not explain it clearly and I have since corrected myself. Ive made myself look like an idiot all because I didnt read over my post well enough before I posted it.

They way I feel right now is that you are trying to pin me as being an ANTI-Marine type. Which ive clearly stated I respect all of them equally. There 4 branchs of the military for a reason. Not everyone belongs in the marines. I surely do not!
 
Your trying to make a simple kind comment of mind turn into an all out arguement. You have to respect my opinion. Beforehand I did not explain it clearly and I have since corrected myself. Ive made myself look like an idiot all because I didnt read over my post well enough before I posted it. They way I feel right now is that you are trying to pin me as being an ANTI-Marine type. Which ive clearly stated I respect all of them equally. There 4 branchs of the military for a reason. Not everyone belongs in the marines. I surely do not!
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There are actually five branches, not four. Yes, there is a reason for each branch, and yes, they all endure hardship and put their lives on the line. I'm not saying you are anti-Marine. How can anyone interested in serving be anti-any branch? I'm just saying you are not as informed as you seem to believe you are. You advance Hollywood stereotypes as fact. That makes one tend to believe your research is lacking.

I'm not going to argue with you, that is not my purpose. What you seem to fail to understand is this forum has many military and ex-military members on it. People who are in the military have a better idea of what it is about than those who are not. Those who have made a career of the military but who do not need you for a quota can give especially valuable advice. Literature, Hollywood and recruiting stations are historically bad places to learn about the military.

I advise you to enter the branch of your choice. Do not discount the Marines though. In times of peril, the knowledge that the man beside you wanted to fight rather than receive college benefits is a great comfort. That's coming from a Navy man. :)
 
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Someone mentioned Blackwater. Not an option for this young man I am afraid. Most privatized militaries require prior military service.

This is from Blackwater's site...
Applicants must, at a minimum, have completed a four year tour of duty in the Armed Forces or its equivalent as determined by the admissions review board.
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Greg
 
Andrew:

I may be wrong on this, but I do not know if the Marines will accept you without a regular high school diploma.

Let me clear up a few things for you.

1. The United States Marine Corps is the MOST difficult branch to get into. They are EXTREMELY selective about who they accept.

2. As far as training goes, take USMC Boot Camp. Add jump school. Congratulations, you now have Ranger school--almost an exact duplicate curriculum.

3. Of the four services, the Marines are usually the best marksmen. This is because of the emphasis they put on actually HITTING what they aim at--precisely--as opposed to the pop-up silhouette system.

4. The Marines are, by far, the hardest and most efficient of the uniformed services.

How do I know? From a personal standpoint, I speak as an Army NCO with almost 15 years active federal service.

My son just left active duty in the Corps, got out a Corporal, and spent 7 months making insurgents and terrorists VERY nervous in Fallujah.

A parting thought...

The military service is not about killing; although the primary mission of the Armed Services is to close with and destroy the enemy.

The military service is about service in the Armed Forces of the greatest Nation on the face of the earth--the United States of America.

The different branches of service all emphasize the important personal traits that are needed to succeed in the military: Honor, Courage, Commitment; Duty, Honor and Country.

The backbone of the military is discipline, both personal and professional. And, the very essence of military discipline is prompt, cheerful obedience to orders, and the initiation of appropriate actions in the absence of those orders.

If you have a hard time taking orders, do NOT join the military.
 
No hard time taking orders. But id like to have more of an oppurtunity to make my own decisions which a damage control man or mp does. I may go to college and then go to the military. Im not sure. I will see when the time comes.

Ill repeat it again. Wether your in the Navy, Army, Air Force or Marines your just as important to your country and you each have your own task.

The way I explained it earlier may not have seemed that way but I just wanted to clear things up a bit.
 
Andrew, are YOU in for a RUDE AWAKENING! :eek: I'm not real up on today's military, but I really want to be a fly on the wall when you tell gunny "I don't think you're right", or "I can think for myself". I hope you can 1. put up with gunny's breath and volume of voice when he screams and calls you FAGGOT about 1 inch from your ear, 2. do about 100 push ups on your knuckles on 160 degree asphalt, or 3. run 50 laps around an asphalt grinder at 90 some degrees while holding a rifle over your head. Or, worse yet, while under fire, question an order. At the least you'll face a court marshall, brig time, and a dishonorable discharge. At worst, you'll eat a bullet from gunny's weapon, and he'll be cleared of any wrongdoing. Get this straight now, before you blow it: the military is not interested in whether or not you can think for yourself. In fact, they'd rather you didn't. Follow ALL orders, and you might just get through it. Don't, and you WILL regret it. Take it from someone who's been there.
 
Jonothon,
It's possible that although they returned promptly at 2 o'clock, there were people in the office to be seen, or other things to do, and your call didn't get returned until 3:30 because that's when they caught up to your individual case. It might not be that lackasadaical attitude is responsible for the drop in recruitment.


Good luck in your service career. May you serve honorably and proudly and effectively. And safely. Learn good skills, 'cause you'll need them in the coming civil war.


Um, I would love to get the training and skills that I could learn in the military, AND serve my country, but I CANNOT ABIDE THE NOTION THAT IN ORDER TO SERVE MY COUNTRY, I WOULD HAVE TO GIVE UP MANY OF THE RIGHTS I HAVE AS A CIVILIAN in order to do so!!!!! That's ridiculous, and I find it unacceptable. You essentially become a slave to the military, and as we are seeing, this lasts even beyond your agreed-to term of service.

-blackmind
 
OK guys, I still dont think you quite understand what im saying. Ive sworn up and down Im explaining myself correctly but youre just not getting it. Ive said it in almost everyone of my post. I have no problems being ordered around. But im not going to stand in a snipers crosshairs even if ordered. Unless its for a worthy cause. I on the other hand wouldnt mind being told to do certain tasks and following strategic plans. In most SF you at times help with a strategy. Thats what im talking about.

All of this arguement all because I said Marines are out of the question. Its not a branch of the military im willing to join. I will leave it at that. Its sensless explaining myself over and over again. I wasn't clear during the beginning but I did correct myself later on in the thread. Im trying to show you guys respect and don't want you to think im being turkey necked about this. I was just trying to explain myself without confusing anyone and confusion is all I caused :rolleyes: .
 
OK guys, I still dont think you quite understand what im saying. Ive sworn up and down Im explaining myself correctly but youre just not getting it.
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Andrew, have you thought for a moment maybe you are the one not getting it? Just consider it for a moment, OK?
I have no problems being ordered around. But im not going to stand in a snipers crosshairs even if ordered. Unless its for a worthy cause.
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I'm glad you have no problem being ordered around. Chances are you will never be ordered to stand in a sniper's crosshairs. Perhaps you will run through them. It's not up to you to decide whether the cause is worthy enough or not.
Be aware that a Damage Control man is sent where others run away from. On my ship, during one major conflag, we lost 17 DC men, including Chiefs and PO1s, and all of them knew they were going to their deaths. Over 30 others were badly burned and had to be flown off the ship, including the Fire Marshall. This fire was in peacetime. We had a minor fire every three days or so, usually didn't even have to run fire drills!

I encourage you to go into the branch of your choice. There is a lot of potential for personal growth in the military. It is not all self sacrifice. You will make the best friends you ever had, endure the worst conditions you've ever endured, and come out a changed person, regardless of the branch.

Best regards.
XB
VFA 151
USS Midway
 
XB hit it dead on the head.

No commander WANTS to see their soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen or Guardsmen (and women) die or get hurt. Whether the leader is a small unit commander (squad leader/platoon sergeant/first sergeant/platoon leader/company commander) or leading a major command, there is nothing any NCO or officer wants more fervently then to have a colorful (if uneventful) command.

However, the priority is the accomplishment of the mission. And with the lines of warfare being as fluid as they are, there is really no such thing as the FEBA (forward edge of the battle area) anymore. Sure, they may be on a map, but give an hour and the whole thing might change.

The fighting men (AND women, nowadays) who are in the rear echelons might find themselves suddenly at the focal point of combat action which might decide the course of the entire conflict.

When that happens, you must be able to rise to the occasion. This is where your training and discipline leads you--to ensure that you do your part to accomplish the mission.

Have you ever seen the movie "Battle of the Bulge"? There is a scene where (don't know how true to history it is) where a general officer makes the decision to withdraw his command from their location. Because of the speed and closeness of the German advance, he needed to buy some time for the rest of his command to make it out safely.

He made the decision to leave one company sized unit of Infantry behind to slow the German advance. His parting orders and conversation with the Company Commander shows that they both know and understand the orders. The General will take the major command to safety.

The Infantry Commander knows that neither he nor his men will walk away from that confrontation. Anyone that is not killed in the battle WILL become a POW.

If confronted with that situation, here's what the American fighting soldier/sailor/airman/Marine/Guardsman does:

He or she improves their fighting position, scrounges all the ammunition they can get, occupies that position, locks and loads, grabs their gravitas, looks out upon their chosen slice of the killing ground.....

and says, "Bring it."

They know that the chances that they will leave that position alive are slim; but they have received the lawful orders of their Commanders, and they will HOLD THAT GROUND until the weapon falls from their lifeless fingers.

We, as citizens of the greatest Nation on earth, can give heartfelt thanks to Almighty God that we have--and have had--fighting men and women who have the guts enough to stand their ground under those orders and conditions. We have had those kinds of people in our Armed Forces since the first Minutemen stared the soldiers of the British Empire in the eye at Concord.

We have had those magnificent soldiers in every conflict since then--and we exist as a Nation because of it.

Only you can answer this question for yourself.

Can you obey an order like that?
Could you potentially GIVE an order like that?
Are you willing to stand your post, and quit your post only when properly relieved--even at the cost of your life?

If not, again--rethink the military. It ain't about the college money, the travel of the adventure.

It is about raising your hand to Almighty God and swearing an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It is about obeying the orders of the officers appointed over you.

At ANY cost. At ANY price. Even unto death.

Are you ready?
 
Originally posted by AndrewTB OK guys, I still dont think you quite understand what im saying. Ive sworn up and down Im explaining myself correctly but youre just not getting it. Ive said it in almost everyone of my post. I have no problems being ordered around. But im not going to stand in a snipers crosshairs even if ordered. Unless its for a worthy cause. I on the other hand wouldnt mind being told to do certain tasks and following strategic plans. In most SF you at times help with a strategy. Thats what im talking about.

All of this arguement all because I said Marines are out of the question. Its not a branch of the military im willing to join. I will leave it at that. Its sensless explaining myself over and over again. I wasn't clear during the beginning but I did correct myself later on in the thread. Im trying to show you guys respect and don't want you to think im being turkey necked about this. I was just trying to explain myself without confusing anyone and confusion is all I caused .
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I think you are a bit confused about what the the various special forces do. First off, if you are going in for just 1 tour (regardless of branch), joining the SF is NOT the way to go! They are typically looking for carreerists, not someone with no intention to stay in (I personally never met a SEAL in all my time in the Navy that was in for less than 10 years. Well one that just graduated BUDS, but he was already planning to retire in the military). Second, if you enlist, the chances of you performing any strategy for an insertion or something similar, is very unlikely. Senior enlisted and officers plan the missions, not the grunts (even the SF grunts!)

If you are looking at helping with strategy, and helping on that side, then you should get yourself more towards the intelligence side of things (not sure what the similar MOS' would be in the other branches.) Even so, as a junior enlisted soldier/sailor/airman, you won't be voicing much of an opinion.

If you have no interest in joining the Marines, there's nothing wrong with that. I was exactly the same way as you were when I was talking to the recruiters (didn't even go to the Marine recruiter actually, or the Air Force for that matter.) I talked to the Army and Navy, and almost went Army since they were going to not only guarantee me the language school, but the language I wanted to take (Russian)! The Navy kept screwing around with me until I told them I would enlist in the Army. Anyways, looking back, there are times I wished I had joined the Marines instead of Navy. I loved my time in, deployed a few times (language interpreters had the easiest deployments though, since we would typically be useless outside of our specialized language. Me, as a Russian interpreter for example wouldn't be very helpful on a 6 month cruise around S.America!), and made some good friends.

Good luck with your decision!
 
If I try to get into SF I was planning on doing it as an officer. Which would mean I would need college first. Its simple a part of military branchs that intrest me. I know theres more to it then just sneaking around like to tv shows it.


Thanks for being honest with me though. A couple of recruiters ive had run ins with told me it was easy etc.. When I know it isnt.

AS ive said Marines aren't an intrest. SF (Air Force or Navy) is. IF you don't want to respect that please do not post about it. A personal opinion on something is what counts. I know your just trying to give me guidance and help me out but I know what I would be getting myself into.

Thanks again for the tips. Sorry for Hijacking the thread!
 
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