Let’s make a rapid fire muzzleloader!

That is a good book. Read it many years ago. The Lorenzoni comes to mind. Turn the handle to get the powder charge and ball, return the handle to its position rest and you're loaded. There was one for sale in America at the time of the Revolution.
 
I want to make a firearm based on simplicity and minimalism, yet very reliable. Less parts the gun have - less things that can go wrong..

Regarding the superposed percussion pistol above, it’s an interesting design but I’ve never attempted making anything like that, because of the potential danger if multiple charges fire at the same time, or if the rear charge fire first.

Here’s another superimposed gun, with a safer (or more foolproof) design of the mechanism https://youtu.be/pN4_RV5d15g

The fact that the US army actually ordered and used these guns seem to prove that they weren’t that bad.. With only two charges in one barrel, it should be resonable safe. If a double ignition occur or if the rear charge are set off first by mistake (shouldn’t happen with the Linday’s rifle), I wounder how much more pressure it will generate? It’s not that uncommon to load muzzleloaders wih multiple balls stacked together, and roundballs isn’t that heavy compared to bullets, and black powder doesn’t burn as fast under pressure as smokeless either.

A barrel that can handle the pressure of a .454 casull should be able to handle 50 grains of black powder and ~200 grains of roundballs (the heaviest .454 casull bullet weights 400 grains) without problem.

I think that the most dangerous thing that can occur in a superposed gun isn’t the rear charge firing first (atleast not when it’s only one load infront), but both charges firing simentaneously and therefore the front charge is pushing its recoil against the rear charge trying to exit the barrel.

But it’s all theoretically, there’s only one way to find out for sure. Maybe some videos with experiments will pop up here in the future.

What was used for sealing the superposed loads in the bore back in the days? Did they use slightly oversized balls? What kind of non-combustible material can best be used for sealing today?
 
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Reference to the Belton repeating flintlock may be found in the records of Continental Congress. Think of it like that pistol but with a sliding lock. The Royal Armouries in Leeds has one or two that was made for the British East India Company.
 
The Lindsey was pretty cool albeit somewhat functionally flawed.
But it’s the same idea as the more recent “Metal Storm” up to 1 million rounds per minute gun.
 
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The rear chamber will be about 0.04” smaller than the bore and I’ll use a O-ring behind the rear ball to make a good seal. Should the edge of the chamber be rounded or angular?

TtIWJfM.jpg


What kind of noncombustible, non-sticky sealant can be used instead of ordinary wad, infront of the rear ball? Do you have any suggestions?
 
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No, a muzzleloader with two superposed shots. Since there’s only two shots in the barrel, it allows the rear chamber to be smaller than the bore, since the rear ball isn’t inserted into the rear chamber itself but infront of it in the bore. The idea is that the recoil of the front load won’t compress the rear charge since the rear ball will be pushed against the face of the chamber, and the smaller chamber will also make for a better sealment, put a O-ring between the chamber face and the ball, and the ball will be compressed against it by the recoil of the front charge.
 
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Since the ball is round, a part of it will be inside of the chamber. If the chamber is too small, the rear part of the ball will get stuck into the chamber before it can reach the O-ring. The best option is that the ball rest against the O-ring while the rear part of it rest agaist the walls inside of the chamber.

There’s a mathematical calculation for this, but I don’t know how to approach it.

Btw, other than roundballs, a Minié bullet could be inserted backwards at the rear and the skirt of the bullet should expand when the front charge is fired. But I’ll go with roundballs and O-rings to start with..

Another question is what material the O-ring should be made out of. Rubber or copper (or both)?
 
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Just go with the Belton. I never figured out how the trigger worked with a sliding lock. Better yet, the Lorenzoni. With modern EDM, you can get precision fit instead of hand fitting. Make the swivel portion out of bronze.
 
Hello! I wounder if it’s possible to rapid fire/speed load a muzzleloader?
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METALSTORM!

It is a muzzle loader (in that the barrels are loaded from the muzzle) but YOU don't do it, its done at the factory, multiple projectiles and powder charges loaded into the barrel, and fired sequentially (electrically I believe). Multiple Barrels mounted in a "pack".

Considered a crew served weapon, a modern improvement on the volley gun concept.

(and, NOT black powder ;))
 
I don’t know if the O-ring is necessary. The lead ball is soft and will deform into the chamber making a sealed fit.

I made a sketch where I included flour but maybe there’s something better than flour..?
vPCt764.jpg
 
If you're going to drive an over sized ball into the bore you're not going to get very many reloads if any unless you plan on swabbing the bore before you load it every time. Also pounding an over size ball and swabbing kinda makes the whole rapid fire thing moot because all you're going to get is two shots and you can do that more easily with another barrel.
 
This gun will be a pain to reload, that’s for sure. The biggest reason why’s that is because I need to replace the igniters. My idea here is to have multiple barrels, with two superposed loads in each. Therefore four barrels gives eight shots, which is a big improvement in capacity compared to four shots.

In that sense it’s a rapid fire muzzleloader, that’s very slow to actually reload. If the goal on the other hand is a muzzleloaded firearm that can be reloaded fast, I would go for a single or double barrel pistol with a blunderbuss-muzzle, papercartridges and a permanent heating wire in the chamber that don’t need to be replaced. That can be achieved too, I’ve done such permanent igniters that can handle multiple shots before they need to be replaced, but they are bigger than the disposable igniters, require thicker wires and drain the battery much faster.

I guess I could put those kind of permanent igniters in the rear chambers, so that I have eight shots to start with and then the gun has to be reloaded with four non-superposed charges for each reload. The balls I’m planning to use are only like 0.0013” too big for the bore I’m planning to make.
 
I just want to point out, if someone try to speedload whole combustible papercartridges there’s a chance that a ember is left in the bore pre-igniting the round. A leighweight U-shaped ramrod would be a safer option than a ordinary ramrod. Pouring the powder down the bore is also an option, because if it catch on fire atleast it won’t be any bullet infront of it. Also, it will be less residue without the combustible papercartridges and therefore less chances of embers..
 
A few updates..

I tried making a sealed fit with a bit of copper pipe acting like the rear chamber, like this
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.
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With only a leadball infront, I didn’t succeed.

Inside the chamber, the glap is obvious:
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So, I made the chamber face more angular:
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But still, I didn’t succeed, there’s a small glap (in reality it looks much smaller than in the photo:
Qx96J79.jpg
 
I just want to point out,

Your pictures are way too large

if someone try to speedload whole combustible papercartridges there’s a chance that a ember is left in the bore pre-igniting the round.
Click to expand...

Loading a muzzle loader with a paper cartridge is NOT done the way one loads a cannon with a bagged charge.

The paper cartridge is NOT placed in the barrel and seated. The paper is torn (usually bitten open) the powder is poured down the barrel, then the paper is inserted to serve as a wad and the ball/bullet on top of that and rammed home.
 
What are you going to use to set the powder off? An electric charge by itself won't do it. It takes heat to set off bp
 
I tried to fire a superposed load today. I made an improvised barrel in cal .44 by using a steel pipe, my .44 ball were underdimensioned for the bore but that’s a good thing since the idea behind the experiment was to proof my sealing. I didn’t had any tapered chamber either to prevent compression of the rear charge.

I sealed the rear charge using blutak behind the ball and greased wad infront the bore.

I wired everything together and took cover behind a stone just in case, push the button and BANG - one shot goes off. I check the barrel, everything seem okay and the rear round was still left in the chamber. I switch ON the rear circuit, took cover again, push the button - nothing happen.

I couldn’t set the rear round off. I believe the reason behind that is that the compression from the recoil messed up the igniter.

However, no blowback setting the rear charge off. So I guess it was a success for my sealing proofing.
 
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