Let the Dems do it

Don't feel bad ATTT.
SecDef, trust is earned, not given.

Oh, and "FUD"?
Nowhere in my reply did I mention any candidate.
Do Not Confuse Me as a McCain lover.
I honestly do not want either of them to win.
Quit spilling your own "FUD", or get used to others spilling theirs.

As if I was so naive as to believe your "FUD" about taxes.
Both candidates are going to raise them.

Here's some "FUD" for you.
Define "Assault Weapon" for me.
Lemme guess, you are going to spout "FUD" about pistol grips and magazines, maybe list a few "example" firearms.
Please note that the word "Assault" is an action-verb.
Try and take my AK from me, and I will define "Defence Weapon" for you real quick, without using words.

Actually, "FUD", as a word, has a fun sound to it. Kinda "Elmer"ie.
Thanks for giving me an excuse to use it this often.
 
Lemme guess, you are going to spout "FUD" about pistol grips and magazines, maybe list a few "example" firearms.
Please note that the word "Assault" is an action-verb.
Try and take my AK from me, and I will define "Defence Weapon" for you real quick, without using words.
Click to expand...

Once again I will point out that 3/4 points were FUD, not all four. Is there a reading comprehension problem or what?

I do not like Obama supporting subversion of the 2nd amendment. I like even less McCains supporting the subversion of the 1st, 4th, and 5th.
 
The way I see it...
Part of the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to give us the means and methods to enforce the other Amendments.

Thanks to your last post...
I think you and I SecDef are on the same page, just having different priorities.
That, and the fact that ATTT and I can have this conversation without insults. And you cannot.
My view is from a guy that lives below the poverty level, being held back by those same policies that were supposed to help me, but were never offered to me in the first place.
The "cabin fever" of 'work and couch' over the last four years has made me much more bitter.

I feel that if you experienced it from my perspective, you would better see what I mean.
What you say and want has yet to yield any results, other than take from my paycheck.
I don't want any more. And want the ones in place to go the F*** away.
My welfare and status is my responsibility.
Why should I pay anything to "help" to those persons that refuse to accept that same responsibility?

Why should I pay into a system for healthcare that is not going to help me?
---
I had a sinus infection for over three years because the VA Hospital doctors didn't want to do anything but have me pop useless pills. At least twice a year, I went into the hospital with 102F fever and higher from it.
Yea, some healthcare program.
Sitting for hours while I waited for the doctors TV program to hit a commercial, or his game of solitare on the PC to end.
Thanks, but no-thanks.
I 'fried' it out with some bleach mixed into saline solution, while I lay'ed with my head hanging off the couch.
It only took 4 days for the 'scorched' feeling to go away. And the sinus infection went with it... at least for these last 8 months.
Necessity breeds solution.

If you and your allies want to provide healthcare for "poor" people, I suggest you donate more funds to your local free clinic.
Leave me out of it. I can't afford it.
 
That, and the fact that ATTT and I can have this conversation without insults. And you cannot.
Click to expand...

You can take it as an insult, but it certainly wasn't written that way. Asking if there is a reading comprehension problem when I've had to say something THREE times is hardly unreasonable.

I honestly believe that in regards to health care, those who are so against the Obama plan haven't actually read it and how it will be implemented. Either confusing it for Hillary Clinton's or relying on opposing talking points. You can get a better idea of things in this FAQ.

The cost being the downside, but do you know how much? Take the current cost of medicare and medicaid and add 17%. Or, 3% of our national budget.
 
Yithian...nice platitude about the 2nd Amendment allowing us to keep the rest..but unfortunately that has proved to be a fallacy. All of our rights are being eroded and having the 2nd hasn't made that any less true.

And even if the 2nd Amendment was repealed today..the guns would not go away. So your fears are relatively unfounded I believe. Either that or it's a case of too little too late.
 
Danzig, well said.. I had an attempt at it in a previous post, but it came out really messy.

I'd love to see a response to this. Maybe also a chart of the hierarchy of rights in order of importance.
 
WELL, 2nd amendment or not history has proved bad stuff happens when "leaders" take away guns from their people.
Germany
now Britain. Im sure there are others, Im tired sunburned and my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are beating me down.
 
That is a nice reply Danzig.
Thanks for your input.
Your realization still does not counter the argument that a law abiding citizen will be left without a firearm, while criminals will acquire one.

SecDef, please try and maintain a sense of adulthood.
Re-read your last post and explain how your statement does NOT condone the removal of my rights.
Either you have given up your rights already, or you are trying to assert some meaningless power over my intelligence, and my rights.

My stance:
The Bill of Rights is either there for me the way it has aways been, in plain English, or it is completely null and void.
Education today, in our English language, far surpasses that of the Founding Fathers.
If the document cannot be taken literally for what it says, in plain everyday English, then someone is removing my rights. And I will rebel.
Under The 2nd Amendment, I can use any tool at my disposal as a weapon, in order to Arm myself, to defend all of my rights.

If it is felt necessary to declare me a "criminal" for defending my rights, and therefore hunt me down...
So be it.
I would hope you have the balls to be "on the line" against me.
If you have no willingness to die for your cause, you have no stance argueing with someone who is.
 
Well, unfortunately, Yithian, that attitude is part of the problem.

The whole "well, sure he's not good on rights..but he supports my favorite right so I'll support him" has gotten us where we are today.

It's simple...either an individual supports freedom or they don't. Supporting one out of dozens of freedoms just does not cut it. Supporting even say, 10 out of 20 rights is not good enough..because it means that while your favorite rights may be protected, someone else's rights are being trampled upon.

Now, granted nobody is perfect. Ron Paul (for example) had a few issues that I did not agree with him on. But by and large I view him as a champion of freedom. If McCain was an ardent defender of the Constitution and only erred on a few issues, then I could perhaps support him as well. But the fact is...He's lousy. MOST issues he is anti freedom/pro big government. There may be on or two issues that I might agree with him on..but that is NOT enough to garner my support and I maintain that it should not be enough to garner your support either.

But that's just me. I do not have the right or ability to think for you.
 
yup, but, a vote not for mCcain, is a vote for Obama. Id prefer not to have to stock up on another 20 ooo rounds and varous parts that may break on my AR15 as parts will most likely be unavailable. Under Obama, we could be subject to Kalifornias no lead law, microstamping and 1 box a month of No lead ammo. I dont want that happening. Im a american, and a veteran,and I care about my country and its people.
I know guns arent the only issue, but it is the most important. Why the hell does Obama want us disarmed? I dont have anymore money to pay his tax increases, or pay for his medical plan, or buy Obamas $6 a gallon gas. If car gas is $6 , airplane gas will be $10 that means my business will slow down, I can't fly my plane.
I also, dont want to have the American Military yanked out of the Middle east with the job unfinished. If we did that ( And Obama will) The Terrorists will rejoice to allah claiming victory, even though the cave they live in has been flattened and all of their buddies have been shot , or have suffered from " premature detonation" Iran will take over Iraq, and this mess will start all over again. All the soldiers that have fought and died will be for nothing when Obama says " Load them up!"
 
Re-read your last post and explain how your statement does NOT condone the removal of my rights.
Click to expand...

No, not condoning the removal of your rights at all, merely asking that you fight for them all equally.

WELL, 2nd amendment or not history has proved bad stuff happens when "leaders" take away guns from their people.
Germany
now Britain. Im sure there are others, Im tired sunburned and my peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are beating me down.
Click to expand...

No argument here. It is sad though that the net effect of choosing our next president is to choose which rights we want to have violated, or try to guess who will violate them more/less.
 
Yea!
We are all on the same page.

Danzig. Thank you for your insight.
Somewhere on the first page, I made note of the fact that I don't want either McCain or Obama to "win". And the fact that we don't have a choice in the matter.
I pick on the 2nd hard, because it is the one most infringed upon, and key in its support of "defending" or fighting for the others.

SecDef said:
No, not condoning the removal of your rights at all, merely asking that you fight for them all equally.
Click to expand...
What would you have me fight "equally" with? A broom handle?
If they refuse to listen to the 'mouth', they are going to end up listening to the 'muzzle'.
Be it the muzzle of a rifle, or the muzzle they place over my head, if they catch me unarmed.
 
No , we can vote. Our state will undoubtedly vote Republican. However, A democrat has around a 50% chance of getting elected. If he does , he will want to spread his gun hatred all over us, raise our taxes and make me pay for homeless people to have health insurance so they can somehow cash it in for a bottle of scotch.( specially since I already have a great health insurance program) I just want to be left alone. I dont plan on killing anybody, stealing anything,speeding or raping anyone. That pretty much covers all the laws as I am concerned. If I break any of those laws, Im a bad guy. BUT UNTIL I DO, QUIT PUNISHING ME FOR CRAP THAT I COULD POSSIBLY DO WITH MY EVIL LITTLE RIFLE. I hate seeing OBAMA on my TV . It makes me want to yak on my new TV that i had to buy because the government cant leave well enough alone and make me get a digital TV. BUt heh, Its a nice flatscreen though.!! I miss the old crank knobs on the old one.
 
No , we can vote. Our state will undoubtedly vote Republican. However, A democrat has around a 50% chance of getting elected. If he does , he will want to spread his gun hatred all over us, raise our taxes and make me pay for homeless people to have health insurance so they can somehow cash it in for a bottle of scotch.( specially since I already have a great health insurance program) I just want to be left alone. I dont plan on killing anybody, stealing anything,speeding or raping anyone. That pretty much covers all the laws as I am concerned. If I break any of those laws, Im a bad guy. BUT UNTIL I DO, QUIT PUNISHING ME FOR CRAP THAT I COULD POSSIBLY DO WITH MY EVIL LITTLE RIFLE. I hate seeing OBAMA on my TV . It makes me want to yak on my new TV that i had to buy because the government cant leave well enough alone and make me get a digital TV. BUt heh, Its a nice flatscreen though.!! I miss the old crank knobs on the old one.
Click to expand...

I absolutely understand your position on "gun hatred". What I don't understand is allowing "free speech hatred", "due process hatred", and "unreasonable search and seizure hatred" to escape the scope of your posts. One would think you would be able to muster up some level of vigor on these such as your last post. I mean, come on, talk about government intervention. . . .
 
SecDef said:
I didn't realize you weren't eligible to vote. My apologies.
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At what point does my vote determine who becomes President of the U.S.A.?

There are far too many "hands in the pot" for my F.U.D. to be relieved.

(LOL... the "FUD" again.)
 
HAHAH< GO FUD YOURSELF.
this FUDS for you

Nope, I like my free speech too.
If I get unreasonably searched and siezed, I m going boxing. They will have to either TAZE me or shoot me.

I havent heard much of anything about reapealing the first ammendment from any of the Candidates

or due process?? we lost that one. We have innocent people in jail now that have been waiting for months for trials. they done took that one. You know, Judges and lawyers gotta take time off to take their kids to Disney world, sheeeesh
 
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