Less Than Lethal Carry

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Desert01

New member
Ok the other thread has desended into a legal debate. I'm not a legal expert so let's stay out of the weeds. Knives are also out of the LTL span.

1. What do you carry?

2. What are your rules for employing it?

3. How to you use it, ie non dominate hand ect?

4. How do you carry it?

5. Advantages of one type over another?

Again please stay out of the legal area's. We can debate them in the legal thread, which is not in Hogan's Alley:rolleyes: Don't get me wrong it is a good debate, just not a tactical debate.

Thanks,

Desert01
 
I carry a 10% oil based OC "borrowed" from the Marine Corps weak side trouser pocket. I don't want a belt holster for OC, I just think it makes me stand out too much if I tuck my shirt. IWB is uncomfortable as hell, and I like to carry the same way no matter how I dress. I know you can't always get away with that, but I like to get in routine with OC as it's too easy to not take as seriously. That being said if I had to keep changing it around I would be prone to forget it or to just say screw it. I have trained to draw pistol and OC at the same time, OC weak hand and pistol strong hand, though I have gone over some threat recognition drills also. I like to incorporate shoot/no shoot situations, escalation of force, and also skipping force escalation and going straight to lethal (I think that last one is important, if someone is obviously likely to kill you very quickly skip reaching for OC and just draw a spare mag with the pistol).

My rules for carrying it... this is pretty hard for me to explain. Just because by a technicality of the law someone may be using deadly force bare-handed in some states doesn't mean you have to shoot them. If someone was coming to wail on me with blunt force weapon I would probably draw OC with my CC. Mind you I hold myself to a higher standard than even the law sometimes prescribes. I don't want to kill anyone but I will if I have to. That being said, I may choose to attempt to save the life of my attacker even if I could get away with taking it legally. If I get myself killed for doing that, then God will take care of it. Anywho, firearm I definatly skip LTL. Knife, it would have to be about a 2" blade or less before I skipped LTL. Melee, depends on how close, how many, what type, so on so forth. If I have time to use LTL I will in that case. LTL is a primary many times in NC as the state is pretty restrictive with some of the places you can carry, so LTL is primary in those places.

Anywho, this is what I use but I'm kinda excited to see what others post. I have actually thought of using a rubber bullet in the chamber as I carried or other LTL devices. I'm open to other LTL possibilities so keep tactical practices coming. Hope this helped
 
Well... I'm considering some pepper spray. I hate the stuff and don't really want to own any, but I go on brisk walks to jogs at night, which is the only time I have to do it, and carrying my gun is... well, it isn't easy in a pocket or IWB in sweat pants (open carry in the town is questionable at the moment, not sure it is allowed, or rather, the town over from ours forks in to ours in places along the block and they don't allow open carry at all), and it weighs me down weird on one side. I lost a knife a few days ago when it dropped out of my pockets and I didn't know it. So I may get some pepper spray.

I'm considering one that actually straps to your hand and fits in your palm, nice and small. Designed for working out.

Otherwise, not sure I can answer the rest as I haven't carried pepper spray since I was 15.
 
I'd carry an extendable baton if I had one. Otherwise I'd use whatever I am holding. Running is my best nonlethal option right now.
 
Pepper spray is a good non-leathal answer for me.

In 50+ years I have not needed to pull a gun and in most situations I can imagine it wouldn't be legal to.

Road Rage, angry drunk, BG looking to start a fight, if they are not armed then pepper spray is the answer.
 
My area does not allow carry in bars. Unfortunately, I obey this statute. The worst thing I take with me when I walk to the bar is a fairly large can of Mace-brand 10% pepper-foam in my right front pocket.

Apparently, the foam stuff can be thrown back at you, but it does not seem to drift or spatter like the mist and stream versions do. I've encountered splashing droplets and clouds of wandering mist quite a few times when the stuff was used in my general area. It's no fun at all and I would rather spare bystanders that particular experience.
 
I carry OC pepper also. Weak side on my belt. Have had it out 3 times each time was a dog.
Basic criteria for use is a definate threat at a distance. One that I consider stoppable w/ the pepper.
 
In my world I'm never where I'd need anything on me. So far. That being said I do keep something in my pickup. In the front I've got a claw hammer and in the back (sometimes the front) I have an entrenching tool. Very versatile things e-tools, the edge/point for lethal and the flat for non-lethal.
To top it all off if the police ask questions about them being there I can just explain that they're just tools right?
Bill
 
Does anyone have any experience with the Kimber Guardian Angel? Saw some ads for it, looks good -- the fiancee indicated she might like to carry something like this (and anything that gets her carrying something for self-defense is a good idea in my book.)
 
I carry a 10% pepper spray that has identification dye built in. I carry in my left front pocket. I train deploying pepper spray while reaching for CCW drills, both with my front pocket carry NAA and my IWB carry Rugers. I also carry a mini maglite that makes a nice striking weapon at bad breath distance if needed. Looking at getting a Surefire E2 Defender to replace this.

As to when I would use. If the assailant was unarmed I would spray first if I couldn't retreat.
 
My keychain has a Monadnock Persuader (short baton) on it. I've had the classes, and know where the strike points and pressure points are ... but truthfully, I regard the thing as more of a toy than as a useful weapon. At least it helps me find my keys if I need to.

I do not carry pepper spray. I might consider doing so if I were not severely asthmatic. As it stands, I believe the risk to me from deploying the stuff would significantly outweigh any benefit I could get from using it on an attacker.

I've had just barely enough of a basic martial art (danzan ryu jujitsu) to know how to fall safely, how to escape from common grabs, and the basic principles of throwing an attacker to the ground. I consider this crucial knowledge, and far more important than any gadgets I might carry with me. And because the knowledge is in my head and in my muscles, it is always with me, which is more than I can say for any other defense tool I could have.

pax
 
My first defense is an agile brain. I tend to stay out of places where I might have to use force. I would use a good OC spray carried in my left side pocket. I have had occasion to use stun guns and haven't had a lot of success with them. Back when I was on the S------ Police Dept. we carried a yawara stick and trained with them. Very effective, but requires training and faith that it will work. On LAPD I carried a sap, but illegal to own in Ca.
 
I had a 900,000 volt stun gun I used to carry; got to use it once on this pretty large guy, works fast. But because of how quickly a person is able to get back up and shake off the effects, I considered it a toy more then anything.

I also have my shotgun loaded with rubber bullets, since I don’t think I will encounter a scenario where it is necessary for me to use deadly force. Also with the rubber bullets a warning shot is much "safer" because the back drop, and over penetration is a non issue.
Although I do keep a few normal rounds on the gun as well
 
I don't consider "less than lethal" carry worth bothering with.
Click to expand...

WOW! So basically you have limited yourself to lethal force only? I hope that you have some awesome h2h skills my friend because if not then you only have a few options in a situation. Run (if you can) or shoot.

I do not consider a knife to be “less lethal” because I would rather be shot than cut.

I normally have the following items:
• Expandable baton
• OC spray
• 34” belt
• Surefire flashlight
• One ball point pen which can be used to stab or as a kubatan.
• Loose change, hand sanitizer, etc. as distraction devices.
• And the rest is my little secret…

Rules for employing are when I feel they are necessary to use. As far as which hand, it all depends upon the situation and the location of the attackers. How do I carry… very carefully. Baton, either on my belt or inside pocket of vest. OC, flashlight, … same. Pen normally in a pocket. Loose change in a pocket. And the rest… hope you don’t find out!
 
I carry pepper spray, have never had to pull a gun but once in the last 25 years and no shots were fired however if I had not have had the weapon it is very possible would not be here today
 
I carry a 45 IWB now adays but always have a 4 oz OC spray from FoxLabs in my left front pocket. Weapons are not allowed where I work, so OC is really one of my only options. Though, even when I can carry, I have one in my pocket to give me defense options.

I read a lot of comments about pepper spray not being effective but I think this video proves conclusively that they are dead wrong: Proof
 
Anybody know anything about the "cobra" currently being advertised on TV? It's a tactical flashlight with a pepper spray nozzle right in the center of the lens. You can blind the guy with the light, then apply the pepper spray. The concept is good; anybody know how well they work?
 
I normally have the following items:
• Expandable baton
• OC spray
• 34” belt
• Surefire flashlight
• One ball point pen which can be used to stab or as a kubatan.
• Loose change, hand sanitizer, etc. as distraction devices.
• And the rest is my little secret…
Click to expand...

I WISH I could still carry a 34" belt! :(

Tom :D
 
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