LEO's: PCP?
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Double Naught Spy
New member
Wow, in MO you still called them "radio cars" in the 1980s? Holy cow. I thought that term went back to the transition from call boxes...or were y'all still using call boxes just prior to the 1980s?
No PCP experiences during my past seven years as a LEO. However I had a heck of a fight with a 100 lb female back in the winter of 2002. She was a diagnosed schitzophrenic who had stopped taking her meds and was self-medicating with Meth. She slugged me between my eyes, broke my glasses, kicked my partner and made a run for a cutting knife.
This was pre-taser so I slammed her to the ground and my partner (a bodybuilder) landed between her shoulderblades. She was a handful, but light and crazy. A fight but not unstopable. The hospital actually pulled out the straitjacket which hadn't been used for years, but the meds weren't having any effect. The state committed her to a state hospital. She was a H&W "client".
I've also dealt with other tough folks who were just very determined. No Meth, PCP, alcohol or anything else had been taken by them. Some folks are just tough like another poster typed.
This was pre-taser so I slammed her to the ground and my partner (a bodybuilder) landed between her shoulderblades. She was a handful, but light and crazy. A fight but not unstopable. The hospital actually pulled out the straitjacket which hadn't been used for years, but the meds weren't having any effect. The state committed her to a state hospital. She was a H&W "client".
I've also dealt with other tough folks who were just very determined. No Meth, PCP, alcohol or anything else had been taken by them. Some folks are just tough like another poster typed.
18 12ga slugs COM and he keeps going?? BUL****! oh wait it was 18 .38 COM and he kept going. Again no way. I hear stories of guys soaking up 6 rounds of .357 mag Hollow points COM and they walk in to the ER. I heard of a group of deer hunters who shot a deer 7 times in the chest with high power rifles and the deer ran over a mile before it was shot in the head while they were tracking it. Well truth be told not one was a good chest shot. two shots low in the brisket so low they did not hit anything at all. one shot was in the meat in the front part of the leg. 2 gut shots and one leg hit.
David Armstrong
Moderator
I was with an agency in OK that still had and used call boxes into the early 1980s. They were supplementary, but still available and active for us. Some places are slow to change!
jabotinsky
New member
The "PCP or "drug crazed" assailant who won't drop despite repeated bullet wounds is just another popular boogieman or zombie of the paranoid types who frequent these boards. It combines fear of hippies or inner-city types with the need to rationalize ever bigger calibers and "stopping power." Alcohol causes most of the problems cops have to deal with out there, those high on PCP are very unlikely to rob a store or even operate a weapon properly...they can be a danger to themselves mostly.
TexasSeaRay
New member
Way easier said than done. Just ask anyone who's had to arrest a duster.
My first PCP experience was on Harry Hines Blvd, Dallas. My partner and I were working an informant and saw a guy push another guy's head through a car window--without opening it first.
Over we went.
Fight lasted almost ten minutes. Ask anyone who's been there/done that. Five minutes is a lifetime. Ten minutes is all of Eternity. Five local Dallas cops showed up. That made SEVEN of us on this guy who was an illegal, around 5' 8" and 200 pounds. Two of the Dallas cops got flex cuffs on around his legs, and this guy kicked out of them like they were spaghetti noodles.
Remember--when you're righting and wrestling with a suspect who does NOT want to be arrested, things tend to get sweaty, bloody and pretty damn slippery.
This was way pre-Rodney King, and after booking this creep at Lou Sterritt my partner and I swore right then and there that if we ever had to fight this hard with another PCP suspect . . .
Jeff
Happily, I've never wrestled one
But I did go through a training course for lawmen in the late '70s - early '80s regarding PCP use and law enforcement handling. The course (seminar) was presented by California Dept of Justice and had sub categories for medical people, social workers and flatfooti.
Jabotinsky mentioned "...those high on PCP are very unlikely to rob a store or even operate a weapon properly...they can be a danger to themselves mostly." That statement is correct as far it goes. Unfortunatly, one side effect of PCP use is extreme paranoia. So any attempt to talk to or assist the user - in any way - is typically interpreted as some form of attack.
No, PCP use does not make one death proof. However, it does completely block pain receptors. A heart shot will most likely kill the user - eventually. In the mean time, they do not have the ability to recognize they are mortally wounded and lie down peacefully and die. They continue with what they were doing until death overtakes them.
It does not give more strength, but since one does not feel pain, one can hit much harder with one's hands. Pain compliance does not exist, as nothing hurts. A massive beating and clubbing and broken bones and such will not deter the user. (When the drug wears off, the pain will be intense - provided they survive.)
That's the problem with dealing with PCP users. Extreme paranoia, limited thinking and judgement, and no pain sensors. For those thinking this is all government propaganda designed to keep the citizens from enjoying the many benefits of recreational drug use, a tinfoil hat will not provide suitable defense from a PCP freak either.
But I did go through a training course for lawmen in the late '70s - early '80s regarding PCP use and law enforcement handling. The course (seminar) was presented by California Dept of Justice and had sub categories for medical people, social workers and flatfooti.
Jabotinsky mentioned "...those high on PCP are very unlikely to rob a store or even operate a weapon properly...they can be a danger to themselves mostly." That statement is correct as far it goes. Unfortunatly, one side effect of PCP use is extreme paranoia. So any attempt to talk to or assist the user - in any way - is typically interpreted as some form of attack.
No, PCP use does not make one death proof. However, it does completely block pain receptors. A heart shot will most likely kill the user - eventually. In the mean time, they do not have the ability to recognize they are mortally wounded and lie down peacefully and die. They continue with what they were doing until death overtakes them.
It does not give more strength, but since one does not feel pain, one can hit much harder with one's hands. Pain compliance does not exist, as nothing hurts. A massive beating and clubbing and broken bones and such will not deter the user. (When the drug wears off, the pain will be intense - provided they survive.)
That's the problem with dealing with PCP users. Extreme paranoia, limited thinking and judgement, and no pain sensors. For those thinking this is all government propaganda designed to keep the citizens from enjoying the many benefits of recreational drug use, a tinfoil hat will not provide suitable defense from a PCP freak either.
jabotinsky
New member
Intelligent post, Archie. I agree with the thrust of what you're saying.
Point I'd make though, is that the pain-impervious user is more a problem for the cops or EMS who got called and have to deal. The average citizen will not have a PCP user on a bad trip trying to break into their home and kill them.
In the unlikely event that one is physically attacked by a "drug-crazed" assailant, the assailant is most likely going to have ingested alcohol.
Guess I'm talking about stereotypes.
Fair enough, Jabotinsky.
I'm looking at it from a lawman perspective and I can't decide "I don't want to be involved."
You are right in that most of the problems with PCP users are going to be dedicated to LEO/EMT sorts. However, these persons nearly always come to the attention of LEO or EMT when a citizen reports '... some naked guy chased me six blocks from the liquor store...' There have been 'intrusions' by PCP users into private homes, but they are the minority. It becomes a real problem if the PCP user is family.
And yes, plain old drunks - while not usually as frenzied and determined as PCP users - do make it up in volume.
I'm looking at it from a lawman perspective and I can't decide "I don't want to be involved."
You are right in that most of the problems with PCP users are going to be dedicated to LEO/EMT sorts. However, these persons nearly always come to the attention of LEO or EMT when a citizen reports '... some naked guy chased me six blocks from the liquor store...' There have been 'intrusions' by PCP users into private homes, but they are the minority. It becomes a real problem if the PCP user is family.
And yes, plain old drunks - while not usually as frenzied and determined as PCP users - do make it up in volume.
Edward429451
Moderator
Plan C sounds like a good plan A if they have that 500 yd stare eh?
What's this stuff look like? (PCP). I've always heard it was horse or elephant tranqulizer used in the dart guns, but I've never seen it.
What's this stuff look like? (PCP). I've always heard it was horse or elephant tranqulizer used in the dart guns, but I've never seen it.
jabotinsky
New member
Usually white powder, sometimes snorted, sometimes sold as "THC" or other...often invisible, sprayed on marijuana leaves, although sometimes with a distinct chemical smell.