LEO and AR 15s

M

mayosligo

New member
I have seen several stories recently come out as "news" that talk about a local law enforcement office arming themselves with AR 15s. I was not aware that LEOs did not have access to these weapons. Is this something new? I know they have sidearms and usually a shotgun in the trunk but is the AR not part of the armory for most forces?
 
I think the issue is that some departments just don’t have the money to provide one for each officer, but allow them to buy their own.
 
The OP is quite behind the times, no offense. Many departments have gone to carbines over shotguns for numerous reasons.

An interesting side nuance is that some areas regard the AR has politically gun incorrect even for LEOs as they are militarizing the police with weapons of war!

That's seen in the antigun cities.

That lead to the development of Rugers' 9mm and 40SW carbines - since out of favor. There was a Remington pump 223 - the reason being cops knew shotguns and were incapable of learning AR usage (duh). But it was really to be PC. Same with the Beretta 9mm and other pistol caliber carbines. NOT an EBR.

But Hairplug Joe Biden says it is to hard to use an AR for most and a double shotgun is all you need. Oh, Secret Service - turn in your P-90s - it's for JOE!
 
Anytime you say "usually," you're usually wrong. At any rate, that is a good argument about arming the police with military weapons. Some departments even have armored cars. I realize a lot of you are either policemen or want to be but is that what you want the police to be? Do you think the police should have light machine guns? My line of thinking is that once someone says the police are on the front lines of the war on crime, who exactly do you think is seen as the enemy?
 
Glenn, I am not so sure that he is behind the times. Many police departments still don't have them. The ones that do also make you qualify to use one (which I think is wise). It has been stated by some that the mentality is that these AR's were for swat teams, but that mentality is changing as the tactics for confronting a gunman in a school or other large building have changed.
 
I don't know about NOW, but post Vietnam, and the lead up to switching to the M16A2, the Army would GIVE any ligit Police Department M16a1s.

But I don't know why, according our Vice President, double barrel shotguns are more effective as a combat weapon.
 
But I don't know why, according our Vice President, double barrel shotguns are more effective as a combat weapon.
Click to expand...

I actually saw an Iraqi soldier with one of those one time. He kept asking me for shells.

Post Vietnam should have been the start of the introduction for the AR to law enforcement. It got such a bad rap there through lies, urban legends and half truths that most departments would not adopt it.

Today there is little doubt to its reliability and effectiveness.
 
I think the first real push to do this was the Norco shootout. After that departments started looking for Mini-14's, M16's, and AR-15's. that was about 1980.
 
I bought mine in 1990 and carried it as a patrol rifle. Never used it in that regard, but in 30 years as a cop, I've only had to use the shotgun twice. The rifle I have is the standard Bushmaster XM15E2, the clone of the A2 I carried in the Army. When the deputies in our agency by an AR, they make us go thru a 1-day carbine course, then qualify with it annually.
 
At least here in NC, some departments do either issue them to each officer, or as a pool "rifle" to a group of officers. Those that agencies that dont issue them (and some that do also) allow personally owned rifles to be carried in the vehicle, once the officer qualifies with the rifle.

There is still a rifle loan program for law enforcement agencies to get military m16's of various vintage. Unsure what is currently available though. Last few I saw were M16A1's.
 
I worked in Galveston Co Texas. I often carried an AR, carried for a couple of years an HK 91 and for a short bit a Garand. I always had a 12ga.
In San Antonio I was stunned at how under armed the Police were, within the 5 sections the city was divided into, one Officer per shift 'could' carry a shotgun and one Officer a shift 'could' carry an AR. They had SWAT but the response time was no better than anywhere else.
 
Its part of the militarization of police departments. I suppose with some of the smaller of less funded ones seeing the public scrambling to buy ARs, they want them too.
 
I see it this way:

Bad guys get guns.
Cops want AR's because bad guys have guns.
Good guys want an AR's because bad guys have guns and Cops have AR's!

Simple.
 
My issue was really with the media. Their messaging as that in the wake of Sandy Hook, police departments were were "now" arming themselves in response. I had thought a number of departments would have already had them and it was mostly hype.
 
Its part of the militarization of police departments. I suppose with some of the smaller of less funded ones seeing the public scrambling to buy ARs, they want them too.



A really new trend, isn't it?


Sort of like Thompsons in the the 1930's? :rolleyes:


Bad guys bought them.

then:

Cops bought them.

then:

Public bought them.

and:

NFA was the result.... :o
 
No, only now, the public had them, then the bad guys, then the cops.

There seemed to be a push after North Hollywood, but in the DFW area, the real push didn't seem to come until after their own dealings with full auto wielding bad guys a few years later.

This is one segment of the event...

WARNING - Foul language
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/9/cop-gets-shot-at-with-machine-gun-368204

Dallas OK'd AR15 patrol rifles later that year, IIRC, largely in response to this.
http://www.policeone.com/police-pro...Rifles-Recent-Shootout-Left-Police-Outgunned/
 
Another key fact to remember in regards to the NFA, it was passed after Prohibition had been repealed.

I've often read that it was passed merely to give a bunch of soon to be out of work Treasury Agents something to do.

Also, from my readings, most of the Thompsons and BARs used by the bad guys during the "Roaring '20s" were stolen from police stations and National Guard armories.
 
In order to 'get' 'assault rifle:

Citizens, save up the money, buy what you want.
Bad guys, steal or dope deal or pimp to get some money, steal or have a 'Straw Man' buy what you want.
Big City Cops, go to your Administrator and convince him you need an assault rifle, may or may not happen. Chief requests funds to buy assault rifles from council, may or may not happen. Test several brands and makes, get the brand/make the head of testing team will soon be working for. Purchase assault rifles. Administrator will now issue these to a limited number of Officers who will go through hundreds of hours of training. When needed, an Officer with 'The Assault Rifle' will drive across town to the location hopefully getting there before anything happens.
Small town Rural Deputies, use credit card buy whats on sell OR if there is one that has been seized talk the Chief into letting you carry that one, maybe.
 
Does anyone here have a clue about when LE started carrying repeating rifles/carbines?

I know the topic of this thread is about AR-15's, but when I was a kid back in the late 70's and into the 80's before entering LE, I remember alot of guys carrying various repeating type rifles...From bolt action, lever action, to a few semi-auto's, of various vintage and style....I would say that until the last 10 or so years there was really no "standard" (meaning no one rifle/carbine that was totally popular accross the board)

The idea of LE carrying a rifle/carbine in their vehicle or on their "horse" goes back to the late 1800's probably in some form or fashion. At least I remember when I was a kid, tons of retired law enforcement talked of having a lever action, which at the time, would equate to the AR-15 now in popularity probably. I guess someone should have warned them about the "militarization of law enforcement" since they had rifles/carbines.
 
My Great-Grandpa carried the "assault weapon" of his day when he was the neighboring county's sheriff in the early 1930s.

He carried a Winchester Model 1907 in .351 WSL.

Intermediate caliber, semi-automatic, detachable magazine.

He also carried a shotgun, but that was more so he could stop and shoot at birds as the mood struck him.
 
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