Legalize Drunk Driving

Like it or not, you pretty much stated that you want someone to cause harm such as vehicular homicide to happen before he should be tried and/or punished. I think you'd change your tune REAL fast if that victim was a loved one. Think about that real hard.

Like it or not, you pretty much state that you want something like the virginia tech incident to happen before owners of semi auto handguns are tried and punished! I think you'd change your tune REAL fast if the next victim of gun violence was one your your loved ones. Think about that real hard!

I hope AWBII passes tuttle. So we can all be safe from those potential killers. Someone willfully breaking this law...

Someone willfully breaking the law(whether you like the law or not) and harms someone. That someone that possibly should have had what most here wants: Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. And it all goes down in the toilet because of some people don't want to do anything to the accused UNTIL the event happens.

right?



Right?
 
Like it or not, you pretty much state that you want something like the virginia tech incident to happen before owners of semi auto handguns are tried and punished! I think you'd change your tune REAL fast if the next victim of gun violence was one your your loved ones. Think about that real hard!

I hope AWBII passes tuttle. So we can all be safe from those potential killers. Someone willfully breaking this law...

Yes, because again gun ownership and drunk driving are completely analogous. :rolleyes:

Also, how many people are killed on average every year by school shooters? Single digits? Maybe low doubles?

Now how many are killed by drunk drivers?

Comparing people who figure they're "still good to go" after a few beers to law-abiding citizens owning handguns is self-delusion at its worst.
 
"tuttle8, Your reasoning scares the heck out of me.

Do you want to take my guns from me because I could eventually go crazy and kill someone? Take a premptive strike!"

mrawesome, I didn't say that at all.

Razor,

Like I said. And listen up,too, mrawesome. Until you understand that once again your RIGHT to bear arms has NO need to be used as a comparison to you driving under the influence. Once again: 2A=RKBA. Driving=PRIVELAGE. Not one person that gets behind the wheel under the influence has ANY right. One BECOMES irresponsible and puts others in danger that is on the road. Carrying a firearm doesn't make you irresponsible as long as you follow the laws of your state.

If you don't understand the difference, then you two and I have nothing more to debate. Y'all won't convince me otherwise, and vice versa.

"Like it or not, you pretty much state that you want something like the virginia tech incident to happen before owners of semi auto handguns are tried and punished! I think you'd change your tune REAL fast if the next victim of gun violence was one your your loved ones. Think about that real hard!"

Read what you posted again and tell me how I stated that I wanted a VT incident to happen. Take heed...you're using a subject that can possibly get this thread closed.
 
Actually, drinking and driving is usually legal. It is driving while impaired that is not allowed.
Actually it's not, most states have open container laws, so it's not even legal to ride while drinking.

Open container laws apply whether you have been drinking or not. Again, drinking and driving is absolutely legal. It is the intoxication that is illegal.

Quote:
WRONG! The cops are allowed to set up DUI roadblocks that flat-out erase any right against unreasonable searches, right to privacy, etc.
You're on public roads, and they are stopping cars looking for intoxicated drivers. Are you also against them setting up road blocks and looking for a felon?

That is totally different. The police, in your example, are looking for a specific person, usually in an emergency circumstance. The police cannot set up roadblocks just to look for any old felon they happen to find, they have to be looking for someone specific, and there has to be some sort of emergency to excuse it. I would be opposed to the police just setting up roadblocks to check for "any old thing we can find." That is the whole reason whe have a right against unreasonable search and seizures.


Quote:
WRONG. It is not illegal to have alcohol on your breath. The police can force you to incriminate yourself by forcing you to take a breathalyzer or blood test. If you don't, they will charge you anyway and suspend your license for a year (in my state).

The cops can't force you to take a breathalyzer or field sobriety tests. Many times they don't even need them to get a conviction, they just seal the deal.

Yes they can force you. If you don't take the test, you will have your license suspended for a year (in GA). That is why DUI attorneys tell people to take the Intox on a first DUI in five--the punishment for not taking it is worse than the DUI itself (because you can't get a work permit).


Quote:
Unrealistic. The cops will continue to question you long after they were going to arrest you.
It doesn't mean you have to answer. It's your choice. Problem is most people get pissy and start spouting off about what they are going to do, who they know etc. My kids used to ask daily for a pony. They never got one.
Quote:


Yes, but when the police do that it is unconstitutional. The police are supposed to stop interrogating you after you are going to be arrested--unless they read you your rights.


But, you will be forced to answer highly technical questions without counsel. For example, do I take the field sobriety tests? Are they mandatory? (no)Do I take the Intoxilizer? Will they suspend my license? Or was that on the first one? I wonder if the machine is working right? Hmm.
"How much have you had to drink" doesn't sound too technical to me.

Understanding the consequences is the technical part. For example, the average driver doesn't know that field sobriety testing is totally optional in Georgia. The police usually use trick questions that don't sound like questions to get consent. A lot of time the police prey on the confusion surrounding what will get your license suspended and what will not. Sadly, I suspect the police could never make a winable DUI case against me, even if I was intoxicated. OTOH, I have seen them make solid cases against people who weren't drinking at all.

You agreed to your state laws when you got a driver's license, if you don't like the fact that you agreed to forfeit your license for refusing a breathalyzer maybe you should give your license back. It's a privilege, not a right.

Of course, if you don't agree they won't issue you a license. The Constitution allows you the right to travel and it should be protected by due process like other rights. What if the state said you had to surrender you right against search and seizure to hook up to city water? Would the "you agreed to it" logic still apply?
 
I ran into a DUI checklane one night out to dinner with friends

Since I was the DD all I did was taste the wine (over an hour before) so I knew I was sober

Evidently the cop either had a good nose or was just suspicious

When he asked me to perform some field sobriety tests I politely told him that I was not going to. I told him that he was free to take me downtown for a breath/blood test but that I was not going to provide him with "probable cause" for doing so (other than my refusal, of course)

I was not being a jerk, but anything you do there on the side of the road is very open to interpetation

Yes...he walked the straight line, but he looked "shaky" doing it

I thought it only fair that the nice officer should have to explain why he brought me in so I could blow a 0.0 :D
 
"Of course, if you don't agree they won't issue you a license"

Greg...that occured to me when I heard a discussion on talk radio about DUI laws

I wondered what would happen if you were caught driving without a license and they thought you were drunk

Since you had not agreed to the mandatory tests and you had no license to lose:D

Not real practical...but it made me think

I assume driving without a license carries much lower fines, etc
 
That is totally different. The police, in your example, are looking for a specific person, usually in an emergency circumstance. The police cannot set up roadblocks just to look for any old felon they happen to find, they have to be looking for someone specific, and there has to be some sort of emergency to excuse it. I would be opposed to the police just setting up roadblocks to check for "any old thing we can find." That is the whole reason whe have a right against unreasonable search and seizures.

That are setting up road blocks to search for individuals breaking a specific law. Do you think they are going to let you drive on through a roadblock set up looking for a specific felon if they see you're drunk?

Cop1: "Nope that's not Joe mass murderer, he's just drunk."
Cop2: "Well, better let him go, we're looking for Joe mass murderer"
Cop1: "Have a nice day Mr. Boozer, we have to let you go since you're drunk and we're looking for a murderer":rolleyes:



Yes they can force you. If you don't take the test, you will have your license suspended for a year (in GA). That is why DUI attorneys tell people to take the Intox on a first DUI in five--the punishment for not taking it is worse than the DUI itself (because you can't get a work permit).


They aren't forcing you. When you applied for the privilege of driving you knew the stipulations for getting a license and abusing the privilege . Losing your license for refusing a breathalyzer is not punishment, it's the terms you agreed to when you signed for your license. Like I said before if you don't like the terms you're not required to drive, there is no constitutional right to drive.

Yes, but when the police do that it is unconstitutional. The police are supposed to stop interrogating you after you are going to be arrested--unless they read you your rights.

Where you come from they don't read you your rights?:confused: You can refuse to answer, it doesn't mean they can't ask. Remember anything you say can and will be used against you? Don't say anything, it's not hard unless you're impaired then it seems to be very hard.

Understanding the consequences is the technical part. For example, the average driver doesn't know that field sobriety testing is totally optional in Georgia. The police usually use trick questions that don't sound like questions to get consent. A lot of time the police prey on the confusion surrounding what will get your license suspended and what will not. Sadly, I suspect the police could never make a winable DUI case against me, even if I was intoxicated. OTOH, I have seen them make solid cases against people who weren't drinking at all.

Many people don't know that machine guns and suppressors are legal in many states, it doesn't make the law any less valid. Lawyers give legal advice, not cops; especially cops who are arresting you. Ever heard ignorance of the law is no excuse.
I call bs on trick questions. "Can I search your vehicle" doesn't sound too tricky, unless maybe you're impaired.
It doesn't take much to make a winnable case. Dash cam and body mic usually says all they need it to say. So, I'd say it's a pretty bold statement to say they couldn't get a winnable case against you if you were in fact impaired.
 
Check out this quaint old gibbierish. Doesn't even apply anymore...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Ohh, and here is some more nonsense...

"The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.


Where you come from they don't read you your rights? You can refuse to answer, it doesn't mean they can't ask. Remember anything you say can and will be used against you? Don't say anything, it's not hard unless you're impaired then it seems to be very hard.

Re-read what I said. You are answering something I did not say. That is called the straw-man fallacy. In fact, pretty much your entire argument after this point became a catalogue of fallacies.

Anyway, my entire point can be summed up as this:

1. DUI is bad.
2. The Constitution isn't just garbldygook.
3. Some of the things the state now does to address number one violate our Constitutional rights. :D
 
Gregg,
It's obvious we're not going to agree on this matter, except that DUIs are bad.
Try looking up Michigan State Police vs Sitz(1990). You'll find the U.S. Supreme court reversed a lower court decision arguing it was a 4th amendment violation. They did acknowledge it was a fourth amendment issue, but was necessary. No, I'm not going to get into a slippery slope argument. It's not worth the hassle or research.

I put no straw man up. I used plain hard facts.


BTW: Revoking, suspending or denying you a drivers license is not denying your right to travel. It's denying you the privilege to drive.
 
I assume driving without a license carries much lower fines, etc

Lower, but not low...at least in the one place I got busted for it. Max of somewhere around $2000, and up to 14 days in jail. Ended up costing me about $1000 (just for the suspended license portion), IIRC. Hard to remember, because there were also the fines for not having insurance and no registration as well. It was 'spensive. Yes, I was young and extremely stupid.

1. DUI is bad.
2. The Constitution isn't just garbldygook.
3. Some of the things the state now does to address number one violate our Constitutional rights.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm coming from.
 
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