Legal Alien from Kanada Not Eligable to Purchase Firearms? What the ^%^&

P

Piggy

New member
I was reading through the Texas concealed handgun law booklet when I came across a statement to the effect that "people in the USA on nonimmigrant visas are not eligable to purchase a handgun and are therefore not eligable for a concealed handgun licence."
I moved here from commie Kanada as soon as I finished University and before I started purchasing firearms, I checked the ATF website which states only that "illegal" aliens are prohibited from purchasing firearms. What gives? I am currently in the US on a TN visa which they issue to medical professionals and have had no problems purchasing firearms through the NICS system and no one has ever given me a hard time because of my national origin. Anyone know anything about the laws regarding this matter?
 
Piggy,

I grabbed my copy of the TX concealed Handgun Laws and looked for what you were talking about and couldn't find it: Where is it at in the booklet? Do you have the 97-98 copy?
 
You need a valid green card (or whatever the techno name is)in order to purchase a firearm, it is on the application. The application asked for that number.

Robert
 
I am an Indian citizen, and I did not have a problem buying a gun in Oklahoma in 1997, however in 1999 June I was told buy a gun store owner that he could'nt sell me a gun because I was here on a student visa. I checked with the BATF, and the Oklahoma Attorney General's office and they dont know of any law preventing a LEGAL alien from owning a gun. I checked with another gun shop and they were willing to sell me the gun, I went through the NICS and within 5 minutes I bought the gun.
 
Texas can make its own CCW laws, without regard to your right to purchase a handgun in TX or elsewhere under fed law. I think in my state you must be a "citizen" of the state, which I suppose means a US citizen with an intent to reside in this state indefinitely. Plus I think there is a residency requirement (6 mos or a year, I think). So, the officials you communicated with in TX may be right or they may be wrong. You or your lawyer will have to closely check the CCW law there to be sure.
 
Thanks for your comments fellas. I guess I should have stated that the TX concealed handgun booklet states that "according to FEDERAL LAW (not TX law), aliens on a non-immigrant visa are not permitted to purchase firearms". However, the green card # field is an optional field as is the social security number field. This is all stipulated on page86 of the TX 1999-2000 concealed handgun booklet under the FAQ section. What puzzles me is that the ATF webside only precludes ILLEGAL aliens from purchasing firearms. Moreover, if I am not elligable, why would several reputable firearms dealers sell me handguns? (I asked each dealer about this issue before purchasing anything from them and they all said I was elligible provided I had a valid visa and proof of TX residency). I know that Canadians are subject to very lax INS regulations(ie they can leave and enter the US at will without a visa and stay in the country indefinitely--so long as they are not working)but I'm not sure if that would affect my eligibility to purchase a weapon. I guess the best thing to do is get my application for permanet residency filed ASAP...I aint going back to that God forsaken land of socialism up north. Only problem is..it costs about $1000 and you all know what I could buy with that $$$ Any further thought greatly appreciated.
 
Guys,

Just so I get this clear. Say someone comes over from Australia for a months vacation and decides he'd like a handgun in his rental condo. He is a legal alien on a 3 month visitors visa (standard issue) he doesn't have a drivers license or a social security number. Are we saying that he would be able to buy the handgun of his choice for the duration of his stay (and then sell it presumably), what counts as "being a resident". After all a hotel address could be interpreted as being your resident address, any thoughts ??

------------------
Mike H
 
Mike,

That person, although legally in this country, is technically not eligible to purchase a firearm. You need a alien registration card (green card), it is on the firearms application. Visa's do not cut it! Talk to any immigration attorney, don't take my word for it. Legal means, legal resident, not just in the country legally.

I spent over 10 years getting my family out of communist Cuba, into third world counties and then, into the US. You think tax law is a complex beast, try immigration.

Robert

Robert
 
The advice given to you on this subject is mostly accurate. A Trade Nafta visa makes you a temporary resident of the US. This means that if you are not granted a AFN or citizenship you MUST return to Canada when your visa expires. In order to purchase a firearm you must be a permanent resident of the US (ie greencard or a citizen), that is why you must state your INS status on the ATF form. The individual who sold you the gun was in error, and it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to import it into Canada should you have to return. If you do attempt to export this firearm you must use a FFL. Leaving the country with the gun in your possession would be a violation of 22USC401. It is my belief that you are illegally in posession of this firearm according to federal law.
 
A visa alone will not cut it as there are state residence requirements. You must prove that you have resided withing the state where the purchase is being made for at least 3 months...so a visitors visa is insufficient (you also must have primary identification issued by the state dept. of public safety). However, we are comparing apples and oranges when talking about an Australian visiting the US and purchasing a firearm vs. a Canadian living and working within the US. Canada and the US have very relaxed reciprogal immigration laws. I can enter and leave the US at will and stay here as long as I want without a visa. There is a special class of Visas for Canadians who want to work or study withing the US. Actually, the US consulate within Canada will not even issue visas to Canadians because they are not required to cross the border. All you do is tell the US customs agent what you will be doing in the US and thats that. Since I have lived in TX for almost 2 years, I am definitely considered a Texas resident. Also, things get a little complicated with Canadians; because, as I said, the immigration laws for Canadians are different than for anyone else from any other country. Finally, at least in my case, a green card cannot be necessary otherwise the NICS system would not have approved me. In all cases in which I purchased a firearm, I declared by place of birth, so if a green card # was necessary, the ATF agent doing the check would have asked for that number.
 
OK, I just phoned the NICS information line and was told by an agent that I am elligible to purchase a firearm provided I am in the US on a valid visa and have resided in the state for a minimum of 3 mos. She told me that to purchase a firearm...I would simply be required to show a piece of primary identification issued by the TX dept of public safety and that I would have to show a copy of my lease (or utility bills) that demonstrates I have resided in TX for the past 3 mos. I also have a list of prohibited persons printed out from the ATF website which includes any person:
1. Under Indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
2. Convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
3. Who is a fugitive from justice;
4. Who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
5. Who is an illegal or unlawful alien;
6. Who has been discharged from the military under dishonorable conditions;
7. Who has renounced his/her US citizenship;
8. Who is subject to a court order restraining the person from restraining, harassing, stalking, or threatening the intimate partner or child of an intimate partner;
9. Who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
"Illegal or Unlawful Aliens". They define illegal or unlawful aliens as follows:
1) who has entered the country illegally
2) Non-immigrant whose authorized period of admission has expired
3) Student who has failed to maintain status as a student; or
4) Under an order of deportation, whether or not he or she has left the United States.
b) the term does not include aliens who are in "immigration parole" status in the United States pursuant to the Immigration and Naturalisation Act (INA).
 
18USC922 (d)(5)B....It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person...who being an alien...except as provided in subsection (y)(2) has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.

18USC922 (y)(2).....Exceptions. Subsections (d)(5)(B)....do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is-
(A) admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in posession of a hunting license or prermit lawfully issued in the US
(B) an official of a foreign government who is......
(C) an official of a foreign government or distinguished foreign visitor...designated by Dept. of State
(D) a foreign law enforcement official of a friendly government.....

As far as I can tell these do not apply to you, HOWEVER..... subsection 3 is a waiver portion that you may want to look into. ATF may just have a standard form for this, but I'd do some more checking if I were you, good luck.
 
Thanks for the insight into this complicated issue. I decided to bite the bullet and send in my application packet for permanet residency. It usually takes 12-18 mos so I will likely refrain from purchasing any other firearms until then just to be on the safe side (my wife will be happy to hear this).
 
Good Luck Pigggy, the process is a pain in the neck, but it's worth it. The best of both worlds...I just got back from Toronto, what a great city! Also, going to Canada with US money is always a bonus, 67% exchange rate.
 
Ok since you've dragged "us" Aussies into this pit of joyfullment, what would be the story on me purchasing a Hangun PRIVATELY for some piece of mind if I was to visit your Country on a Legal holiday Visa ?
Any Law saying that a PRIVATE sale is illegal to a "visitor".
No yelling please as I would really like to know. :)
Who knows, one day I might get the opportunity to visit & show you guys how to shoot ! ;)

------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
Alternate E-mail
HS2000@ausi.com
 
Well, while I believe every man has a God-given right to arm himself for his protection and the protection of his family, the governments obviously think otherwise. There may be some individuals who will sell a firearm privately to you but most would ask to see a drivers licence from the state in which the purchase is being made. All I can say is that, unless you plan on staying in the middle of Manhattan, the risk posed to you by the US government is far greater than the risk of criminal attack and I would therefore discourage the purchase (or attempted purchase)of a firearm while in the country. I am not sure if they would actually prosecute a peaceful visitor who happened to pick up a pistol to take to the range and keep at his bedside(I doubt they would) but they can certainly create some major headaches and prevent you from entering the US in the future (if you were caught). Right now is probably the worst time to contemplate this because the government (backed by the NRA) is gung-ho on getting all "those who violate the gun laws currently on the books" regardless of whether or not those individuals are otherwise law-abiding. I was at a gun show today in south Texas and a guy with a wife and 2 kids was almost in tears because he was declined by the NICS background check system. Now this fella looked totally harmless (just didn't put off a bad vibe at all)and from what I gathered, he had some problems with his ex-wife who wanted at his wallet. Apparently he had defaulted on a couple alimony payments and was therefore red-flagged by the FBI. So here we have a guy who poses no threat to society, is completely non-violent, and has no other criminal history, and he is prohibited from purchasing a firearm. Well, I guess we should all let out a sigh of relief because Mr. klinton just "prevented a gun from falling into the wrong hands". Anyway, sorry for ranting. I would just conclude by saying that it is not all that expensive to rent a pistol at the range if you want some practice. It costs about $10 per hour here in TX and you can switch guns as many times as you want in that time period. The range I shoot at has all kinds of great pistols from Rugers, to Sigs, to Glocks. The best part is that you don't have to clean anything afterwards...Not a bad deal at all.

[This message has been edited by Piggy (edited December 18, 1999).]
 
It's interesting that the above mentioned regulations prohibit the sale of ammunition as well as firearms to non-US citizens. I can walk into my local Wally Mart and buy a thousand rounds of my choice without so much as a blink from the gum chewing nail polish applying counter clerk, the point being so could a non-resident.

Hmmm interesting, don't expect them to get prosecuted anytime soon,

Regards,

------------------
Mike H
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top