Lee powder dipper kit VERSUS homemade specialised dippers

T

TheGuyOfSouthamerica

Moderator
Hi again,

I ordered an Lee powder dipper kit but afterward I realised even the smallest .3 cc dipper is somewhat big even sometimes for 38 spl or 9mm Luger and for sure does not go for 380 acp.
So I checked Youtube and saw there an homemade dipper from an cut off case.
Same Thing I did and screwed one up so I had to cut it shorter. The shorter one (bottom of Picture) will hold 2.1 grain to 2.2 grain scraped of flush of VV N340 type powder (similar to Unique). The middle one homemade dipper is for 9mm Luger and my Nagant style deep seaten 148 grain Wadcutters in 38 spl cases loaded to about 35000 PSI pressure which throws 3.5 grain of VV N340 powder if scraped off flush.

So the smallest homemade dipper should go for the Beretta Pico 380 acp with an 120 grain Truncated Cone lead bullet (Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook states for an 120 grain lead bullet for 380 acp a Minimum of 2.2 grain Unique).
The bigger dipper works nice for These deep seated Nagant style rounds and hopefully works for 9mm Luger as well.
There are no signs of overpressure using this (bigger) homemade dipper.

My newest "Invention" you can observe here:
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On top of the Picture for comparison is an 2.2 cc Lee dipper.
I believe this is the best solution since Lee dippers lack of intermediate dippers. Lee should make their dippers from 0.05 cc to 4 cc having increments of at least 0.1 cc or better 0.05 cc. That would be an complete and awesome dipper set and very accurate.
 

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I make them so I can lower them into an open jug to scoop vs having to dump the powder into something shallow in order to get a scoop.

IMG_20160117_174359_490-1_zpsa8qnxk0f.jpg
 
Thanks for sharing jmorris

Yours however may be used for rifle reloading righth?

I reload exclusively pistol ammo. So they have to be tiny and accurate since for 380 acp you sometimes do not have an big margin of error.
 
I've made several dippers for the same reason, it's the only way to get one that's exactly right.

I do have a suggestion. I suspect you will have better consistency with small charges if you start with a smaller case to make the dipper. For the same volume, a smaller case will have less area at the opening. At least in my use, this resulted in less variation. 25 auto cases are handy, but even 22 LR are useful for charges that small.
 
How much Unique or any other powder does an 22 LR case hold? And an 25 acp case?

The Thing is this. Remember I scavenge powder from 12 ga shotshells. So I reload about 7 cases at one session since that lets me empty 1 12 ga shotshell.

I poor the powder from the shotshell into the homemade dipper and from there transfere it to the reloadable cases.
So I do not have availlable huge amounts of powder to "dip in" the dippers.
 
You can buy Lee dippers for $1 apiece. Then I cut out a small piece of cardboard and jam it in. You can try different thicknesses til you get it right then label it. I've got several different ones specific to a certain powder for 9mm loads.
 
How much Unique or any other powder does an 22 LR case hold? And an 25 acp case?

The Thing is this. Remember I scavenge powder from 12 ga shotshells. So I reload about 7 cases at one session since that lets me empty 1 12 ga shotshell.

I poor the powder from the shotshell into the homemade dipper and from there transfere it to the reloadable cases.
So I do not have availlable huge amounts of powder to "dip in" the dippers.
Click to expand...

Here is what you can do. All powders have a VMD (Volume Measured Density) and the VMD of popular smokeless powders can be found here. This is what powder dippers are based on. Since you mentioned Unique we will use it as an example. The VMD for Unique is 0.1092, VMD is the volume of one grain of gunpowder in cubic centimeters. To find the volume of a powder charge, multiply the grains of powder by the VMD. Using your 22 LR case as an example a .22 LR case has a volume of about .34 cc.

Unique has a VMD of 0.1092 and if we multiply the VMD * Desired Charge Weight = Volume in cc. Therefore Volume in cc / VMD = Charge Weight in grains so we have .34cc / 0.1092 = 3.1136 grains.

There is a small caveat to all of this. My understanding is powder manufacturers allow a 16% tolerance of density (VMD) lot to lot of powder.

Something to consider is 1.0 cc of pure water. The mass of one cubic centimeter of water at 3.98 °C (the temperature at which it attains its maximum density) is closely equal to one gram. Using tap water at about 70 degrees F I get about the same, close enough. Just convert grams to grains.

Take a known powder sample, weigh the sample. Then you have cc (cubic centimeters of volume) / Weight of sample = VMD so it just a matter of moving the math to get answers, Since the VMD of powders can vary lot to lot it becomes easy to check the VMD.

Weigh an empty 22 LR case, fill it with water and weigh it again. Subtract the empty from full weight and get the answer in grains. That is the volume in cc.

Ron
 
Thanks reloadron,

I just finished reloading 7 shots of These 148 grain Nagant style Wadcutters for 357 mag Revolver.

I am amazed how accurate the dipper I made for the 9mm Luger is. If I heap it (overload) it has allways 3.8 grain powder (it is actually Maxam CSB-1P powder). Maxam states an Minimum load for 9x19mm of 3.7 grain CSB-1M (M stands for Metallic). Here is the reload data: http://www.maxamcomponents.com/en/o...owders/reloading_data_for_metallic_ammunition

If I scrape it flush off it is allways 3.5 grains + a hair more of that powder. It is allways consistent as far as I weighted it.
So this should be the ideal dipper for Maxam CSB-1P and Vectan A1 (same as VV N340) for 9mm Luger (although on the lower end of the data). The gun however should cycle reliable with this. I use lead 124 grain Truncated Cone tumble lube bullets for 9mm Luger.
 
I today used with my homemade dippers another spanish shotshell powder (it is actually Vectan A1 or same as VV N340 as states the manufacturer of the shotshells) for reloading the Nagant style deep seated 38 spl (35000 psi) with the 148 grain Wadcutter (shot in an 357 mag SAA Revolver).

I realised there has to be very much caution in using These dippers with different powders since the Volumen of These powders for each one is different. Mandatory is to weight allways a few samples of each powder for each dipper.

I realised with the other spanish powder the 9mm Luger dipper throws 3.0 grains of powder if scraped flush. If heaped that dipper throws 3.7 grain. But the dipper I thought would work for the 380 acp if used two (2) of them scraped flush weigths exactly 3.5 grains of this Vectan A1 (Vitha Vhiouri N340). So 2 of the smaller dippers gives me with this powder the exact amount as gives the bigger dipper with the Maxam CSB-1P.

Vectan states for 125 grain lead bullet an Minimum of 2.8 grain and Maximum 3.4 grain for this powder meanwhile Vhita Vuori Webpage states for similar 147 grain lead RN bullet an min of 3.8 grain max of 4.1 grain for VV N340. Maxam assures me their A1 is the same burn rate as VV N340.
Till now I used indifferently (same load) the A1 and the CSB-1P powders (as if they would be the same).
 
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Mandatory is to weight allways a few samples of echa powder for each dipper.
Click to expand...

That would be a very good idea.

Awhile back I did a few experiments using dippers to measure powder. Anytime we use a dipper it is like using a volume metered powder throe or powder measure. It is a matter of how well the end user repeats the process. So I went and got a powder dipper and started dipping powder. The powder used for the experiment was Hodgdon H335 and the dipper was a 2.8cc dipper. I took ten samples both skimmed and unskimmed and here is what we have:

Dipper%20Test%201.png


Each charge was weighed on a RCBS ChargeMaster scale which I also tested using check weights know to be accurate:

Dipper%20Test%202.png


Dipper%20Test%204.png


Here are the unleveled and leveled charges as seen in the dipper:

Dipper%20Test%208.png


Dipper%20Test%207.png


All of the samples were placed into a spread sheet and compared. Using a 2.8cc dipper with H335 powder and leveling the dipper my average charge should have been about 43.4 grains but things did not quite work out that way. Here are the actual numbers I got.

Dipper%20Test%203.png


So while millions of rounds have been sent downrange using a dipper it is wise to always check the charge weight when starting out. The VMD of powder can vary.

Ron
 
Similar experience I made as well. It is no good heap the dipper since then the weight varies very much. The ONLY way to have an somewhat accurate load is to skimm it off.

Once you establish the skimm off weight for each powder and dipper then it is safe to use it.

These 3.5 grain Vectan A1/VV N340 for the 9mm Luger type 148 grain wadcutter in the 38 spl do NOT Show any signs of overpressure although the load data for an 147 grain lead RN says Maximum 3.4 grains on the Vectan Homepage (for 9mm Luger).
This load (actually is over max data) however has more Penetration as the previous loads. And These Wadcutters do not keyhole once it hits an hard Surface (it goes clean through an at least 1.2" Wood from 23 meters).
 
I just got the Lee Powder dipper (measure) set.

The concept is awesome. Not so much Lee's dipper practicallity since there are some important dippers missing.

Most dipper I miss is the 0.4cc dipper. That one is for 9mm Luger/38 spl. The 0.5cc dipper holds about an consistent 3.9 grain and that is to much for an Nagant style deep seated 148 grain Wadcutter for the 38 spl or 124 grain 9mm Luger Truncated Cone.
The 0.3cc dipper is to small for 9mm Luger since it holds about 2.5 grain of powder. That might work for 380 acp but may be on the heavy side as well. For 380 acp I would want to see an 0.2cc dipper as well.
As well Lee should include an 0.6cc dipper for those loading +p 357 mag/38spl +p ammo.

But all These dippers can be made by the reloader from cases if he has an case trimmer. I just got my Lyman Accutrimmer as well but for an hefty 200 US$ Price (customs and the Gun Agency Charges lots for reloading Equipment but at least it is legal and not forbidden I assume).
The trimmer is very nice to make hollow Points. Those hollow Points are about .124" in Diameter and can be made as deep as one wants.
The 148 grain Wadcutter with an hollow Point just shatters the lead walls surrounding the hollow Point in 3 pieces and the main lead core continues it's path. Penetration is less. Each hollow Point (drilled lead out) takes about 15 grains of lead out of the WC or Truncated Cone. So the 125 grain TC weights then 110 grain in about. Specially These 9mm Luger Truncated Cones give very nice hollow Points.
 
Any dipper can be made infinitely adjustable

Two ways to make dippers adjustable:

Fill (shim) the bottom with something (cardboard has already been suggested) such as wood glue or hard wax. Find, final adjustment can be made with a drill bit turned by hand to carve out excess.

Drill a hole in the bottom of the dipper and put a screw in the hole (in plastic it will self-tap easily, in brass you may need a little muscle). If the screw goes in from the bottom, it should have a flat point and fill the diameter of the dipper (a machine screw). If the screw goes in the from the top, the head of the screw should fill the diameter of the dipper and best be a pan-head or anything with a flat top and as little indentations as possible,

The screw-type allows you to adjust easily.

Lost Sheep
 
Why aren't they (Lee) make such an adjustable metallic one which goes from 0.1cc to 4.5cc? That would be an true all-in-one powder measure dipper.

Make 'em from aluminum or stainless steel and adjustable all the way down to 0.1cc up to 4.5cc and you have made an excellent product.

What about this product. https://traditionsfirearms.com/product/revolver-powder-measure-a1307

31NUm%2BdzMBL.jpg

Source of Picture: https://www.amazon.com/Traditions-P...82246355&sr=8-8&keywords=small+powder+measure

Can it be reduced to 0 (Zero) grains? If it can be closed completely so no grains enter then it will work as an all-in-one powder measure by Volumen.
 
Wow, this is like deja vu. I started out doing exactly what you are attempting and finally switched to a powder measure. Haven't looked back.
 
Dear chris in va

Have you got the same powder measure?
Does it close all the way down to 0 grains? All my pistol calibers use less than 5 grains of powder.

I would be glad you share your experiences with this Traditions powder measure.
 
The brass measure in your photo is a black powder measure. The numbers on it are supposed to correspond to grains volume of black powder. Actual weight will depend on what you are actually using.

This is a chart of various BP substitutes.

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

IIRC you are using "stuff" you have removed from various fireworks, so the numbers really don't mean anything to you.

For an adjustable measure like the one above that goes to zero just cut the top off a syringe, flush with the plunger. I would get the smallest diameter one I could.

bd-1-ml-tuberculin-syringe-without-needle-309.jpg
 
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