LE Only Equipment

lewis, you state 'The fact is, my G23 with hicaps is no more effective a self defense weapon than yours with 10 rounders.' Sorry ... I'm still calm, but I cannot let that pass.

If you believe that, then have your department sell all of their pre-ban hi-caps for a profit, and buy cheaper 10 round mag's. You'll be just as safe and effective, right?

Horse manure! We both know there is a marginal tactical advantage, or there wouldn't have been any demand for higher capacity mag's. Sure, some of it is perception. But, when choosing between a pistol fully loaded with cartridges versus one with a hole in the bottom of the grip where 3 to 5 more rounds would be, I respect our LEO's enough to believe they can figure that one out with no problem.

Please ... don't help the anti-self defense crowd keep snowing people. The BS needs to stop somewhere, and folks are right - honest citizens need for LEO's to have the juevos to state the truth, and not simply more politically correct horse manure. Stand with us.
 
Mr Futu,

Most of your statements do not dignify a response so I won't bother....

But to those that do....

WHO CARES? Meaning the law is stupid...who cares if you, I or anyone else has hi-cap mags. To ask me and all the guys on my shift to turn in thier high capacity mags at the end of each shift is a logistical nightmare....and what purpose would it serve? I don't get the argument...just so yahoos like you (yeah, I called you a yahoo) won't be offended?

As a police officer I am technically on duty all of the time. As a member of a tactical unit I am on call ALL OF THE TIME. And no...I am not issued an AR....it is the real deal, full-auto M4, that you too can not own.

There is also no rev limiter in my Crown Victoria. It will run right up to 140 MPH. The civilian models shut down at 105. Good God, must I now defend dual exhaust?

The guys in the military get to shoot Mk 19's. I don't and that's not fair. If I wanted to though that bad, I'd join. If you don't like that cops get some "perks", perhaps you should join.

I am sorry that you have been excluded from the hi capacity mag issue. The law was not my idea. However, do not criticize me for choosing to arm myself in the best manner possible.

And further more.....

You have no idea what my ideals are regarding the RKBA. Do you think that cops are against gun ownership? If you think they are, you are quite wrong. Some of the top echelons are, but they couldn't find their ass in a dark room using both hands and a flashlight.

If you feel that there is a wedge between the police and honest gunowners, then you put it there.

I'll rant more when my mind is clearer....my mind is a little tired now after staying out to the wee hours protecting ingrates like yourself...and doing it while well armed. Oh yeah....and here I am at home...still well armed....
 
Yes, those three rounds might make a difference I am not arguing that. I have said twice now that I believe the hicap ban is stupid. I will also state without reservation that the only gun laws that are worth having are those that punish criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime. No law banning private possession of firearms by law abiding citizens is constitutional or effective at stopping crime (IMO.) My point was that the important thing is the gunfighter's training and mindset. I am getting ready to leave the house to run some errands and I will be armed with a Ruger SP101 loaded with Remington 125 grain Golden Sabers. I have five rounds in the gun and 2 reloads. I do not feel underarmed at all. I personally have 10 round post ban mags for my g23 and regularly carry them. I guess my main point to all this is that you all are arguing with the wrong cops. We should be figuring out ways to work togethor to stop these terrible laws. Believe me, there are cops out there that would be perfectly happy to be the only people in the world allowed to legally own firearms. Myself, Rob, Benton, KSLawman etc. are obviously not in that category, so why do you all persitst in raking us over the coals?
 
lewis, I hope you don't feel I was raking you over the coals. That was not my intent. I, and I think the vast majority of TFLer's, greatly appreciate our LEO members.

I've clearly beaten this horse into a pulp, and I appreciate what you say.

In conclusion, I do hope more folks like you, Benton, Rob and others help us beat the drum for more logical firearms laws. I've met LEO's that would choose to see me disarmed, and those folks do worry me. Unfortunately, we've got too many citizens and politicians listening to their testimony in Congress. Hopefully we'll see a lot more testimony by LEO's that take a more logical / Constitutional view of the situation. That is definitely what we need. If LEO's appear to remain silent in this debate, or if they are principally heard calling for more restrictive firearms laws, then the RKBA is one step closer to oblivion.

Thanks to all of our LEO members for your service to our country. My family and I greatly appreciate your work, as I am sure most people do. Take care out there.
 
LE's opinion on the RKBA has been something that has been in the news lately in the state of Missouri.

Missouri is one of the few remaining states in which it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone outside of law enforcement to obtain a CCW permit.

Well, a local group, assisted by the NRA recently got the CCW issue placed on the ballot. It failed 49/51.

During this time, almost every leo was for the measure, while the police chiefs and majority of sheriffs were against it. The media of course, latched on to what the brass was spouting and took this as gospel regarding the road dogs. Most people were shocked when they found out that street level cops were strong proponents of the bill. Of course, there were a few liberal idiots who adopted the HCI line, but they were in the vast minority (and selectively taken out back to be beaten)

I guess what I'm trying to say here...and have been trying to say for the last week or so, is that le, in general, is not the enemy.

Back to Mr. Futo,

True, the magazine ban is stupid. I agree. The fact that honest, law-abiding Missourians can not carry is ridiculous. But don't lash out at me for being given these priveledges. If you were given the opportunity, you would do the same.

If you're going to be upset, be upset with the fact that you aren't afforded these rights instead of being angry at me because I am.

Should I give up my hi-cap mags to level the playing field? No...that would be silly.

Is the law fair....NO...but instead of encroaching on my rights, why not fight to try to get your's back. In the time that you have spent raking me over the coals, how many congressmen could you have written or called?

This is fight that will take everyone's energy; Once we start fighting amongst ourselves we canabalize our efforts. That is exactly what HCI would love. Then everybody looses.
 
I get it. Cops can be trusted to use their Hi-cap magazines responsibly while on duty but not off duty. That Hi-cap rule is a joke and to have it apply to the police is an even bigger joke. If the officers can't be trusted to use their Hi-cap mags responsibly off duty, should we trust them at all? Officers are given certain weapons (full auto sometimes) because they can be trusted to use them properly. An off duty officer should be allowed to possess Hi-cap mags because he is at a greater risk if he decides to get involved in a situation. Unlike being on-duty, he does not have a partner, a shotgun, a radio, Mace, a baton or a back-up weapon. Cops are not gang bangers. They do not just open fire on a crowd of people and empty their weapons. If society can't trust an off duty cop with 3- 15 rnd mags, can we trust them with 4 (or 5 or 6) 10 rnd mags?
 
I'm starting a new thread about off-duty obligations of LEOs. I think it probably cuts to the heart of what I originally intended to talk about, but I got sucked into the "Us vs Them" thing, which has already been discussed at length.

Sorry to put you through that again, BQ. :) And where are my binolculars?

-boing

PS- LEOs are not the problem. The situation is what it is, and they're largely caught in the middle.

LEOs are not the Enemy of RKBA.




[This message has been edited by boing (edited July 15, 1999).]
 
IMHO just because cops go off duty doesn't mean that the BG ( who's bonded out )won't
take it out on him when he is off duty,and,
maybe out with his/her family after a shift.
So it stands to reason the cautious cop needs
to be prepared with the same weapons ( type )
on and off duty. This is a good board; all
this discussion and nobody got shot yet.
 
Benton Quest.

As you say, you just don't get it. Nevermind that it has been explained to you in great detail. If you haven't gotten it by now, then you never will. I'm not sure what a yahoo is, but I am sure that you're either not trying, or you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

[This message has been edited by Futo Inu (edited July 15, 1999).]
 
My father was furious that he not only was eligible to purchase for his own use a LEO CAR-15, but that he got a nice "Badge Americard" discount for it! How's that for redundancy? The price was so ridiculously low, he couldn't stand it, and bought it. He ranted in the gun shop (I was with him) about how this was a stupid aristocratic law, and that he HATED it. But at about $700, he bought it, nonetheless.

In TX, most of the officers I know carry their own firearms, so long as they qualify with 'em. There was a rather amusing scene on local TV a couple of years ago of Dad arresting an escaped prisoner while carrying a pre-'64 Trapper M-94, with a Gold Cup on his hip.

If you shoot it on your own time, on your own range, isn't that commonly referred to as initiative in practicing with your weapon?

I agree that LEO in any way is BS, but you have to practice like you play, and I refuse to back a cop practicing with low-caps off-duty, just because he's off-duty. If a cop wants to shoot a LEO that his jurisdiction won't spring for but will allow him to purchase, more power to him. Just make him donate it (for a nice tax deduction) to the department when he retires. Good as heck for the department, decent deal for the cop, SUCKS for the non-cops.
 
short and simple

If LEO need Hi-caps and we Dont does that mean the LEOs are just not as good a shot as we are ?

My biggest Pistol mak is 8rnds 30 for rifle, I have them and as a TEXAN I will keep them, in fact I did not want a 30rndr untils King Klinton and Queen Hillary said I should not have them.

So I will now have to but mags for any thing I can get my hands on (and can afford) just because they say I can't have them...
 
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