laws concerning sale/shipping of bp c/b pistols ?

CA shipping

I am an FFL dealer/holder and I send black powder firearms to California when one is purchased from me and do not have any trouble shipping right to the buyer as long as they furnish to me a copy of their drivers lic. to show that they are 18 years of age. Black powder firearms are exempt from federal law. The only problem you will have is if you go the UPS as they do not know the laws. Use USPS and you will be able to ship. I got into an argument once with shipping a muzzle loader to Canada. I had to produce the the USPS's own written rule to do so. Hope this helps.
 
now that's the answer I needed, direct from an FFL- thanks

I've had problems with both USPS and UPS clerks. One said "is that a gun ?" because she would not ship guns- even though UPS does ship guns. A USPS clerk would not ship someone else's rifle in a locked case, just because the person sending it, a woman, told them what it was ahead of time. In reality USPS can ship guns. This person was sending it ahead on a hunting trip, and didn't want to take it on a plane.

that's the problem, the clerks are not educated at UPS and USPS, as to the exact laws- and most of them are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, if you know what I mean
 
Here's what took me 2 days to eventually find out, sale/shipment of a replica CB/BP is legal. Check paragraph "C"- it's a bit vague. Perhaps that's what the attorneys were thinking of- and erring on the safe side.



http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#9

I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.


http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
 
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There are no restrictions on shipping blackpowder firearms to California residents directly. Cabela's has shipped me a few blackpowder guns DIRECTLY TO MY DOOR. If it was illegal or questionable, they sure as hell wouldn't do that. I believe CT and NY have restrictions on blackpowder guns.
 
check this out, just got a reply from lawyer #1, the lawyers had C&R confused with antique, they are 2 distinct categories, here's his reply, I respect this attorney for taking the question, then admitting his initial mistake, quote:

I was confused and thinking it was a C&R item, but as you pointed out it is not and as an antique there is no restriction unless CA does have one on out of state shipments
 
Like I said many posts ago, it's legal to ship C&B and BP Gun to & from CA.
Hell I been here since 1974 in and around L.A. - I otta know :O)
 
perhaps you can explain the following- why almost no one will ship a pistol of any type to Michigan then, not even a BB gun or air gun, without a signed waiver, or unless you ship to an FFL, or not at all

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9010715

Payment and Shipping Instructions:
THIS IS AN ANTIQUE FIREARM UNDER FEDERAL LAW: NO FFL REQUIRED IN MOST STATES: YOU MUST BE 21 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER TO PURCHASE THIS FIREARM: YOU MUST PROOVE AGE WITH COPY OF VALID DRIVERS LICENSE OR STATE I.D SHOWING AGE & RESIDENCE ALONG WITH SIGNED STATEMENT STATING THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS FOR YOU TO OWN THIS FIREARM: SELL TO U.S.A. ONLY! : I WILL NOT SELL TO RESIDENTS OF THE FOLLOWING LIST OF CITIES AND STATES: CALIFORNIA, CONNECTICUT, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, HAWAII, ILLINOIS, MASSACHUSETTS, MARYLAND, MICHIGAN, NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK:


Cabela's

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...parentType=index&indexId=cat604293&hasJS=true

tem notes
ALL gun orders placed from or shipped to Illinois, Michigan or Washington, MUST be placed through the Catalog Gun Department by calling 1-800-237-4444 ext 132; available Monday-Friday 7am-8pm and Saturday 8am-5pm (Central Time).

SOME RESTRICTIONS MAY APPLY




North American Arms

http://www.naaminis.com/bpform.pdf



and many, many more- everyone actually, mentions Michigan as a "bad" state to ship to
 
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thread on the subject- Michigan

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f22/ffl-blackpowder-pistols-2302/

0-15-2007, 04:24 PM #1 (permalink)
T3-M4
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Default ffl for blackpowder pistols?
Does anyone know if you need an FFL in michigan for blackpowder pistols?
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:19 AM #2 (permalink)
synoil
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I also need this information or where to find it.
Thanks,
Craig
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:33 AM #3 (permalink)
9mmHP
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From what I've read elsewhere, yes, Michigan surprisingly is one of the very, very few states that requires this.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:25 PM #4 (permalink)
Ed21
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Not that any of the other responses are incorrect, I would not trust legal questions to be answered on a forum. Go to the specific web site for the State concerned and look up that State's firearms laws. This should keep you out of trouble most of the time. Good luck.
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Old 05-04-2008, 08:42 PM #5 (permalink)
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In most states you can purchase black powder handguns without a permit, as well as ball, cap, and powder. The catch-22 is that while you may be able to legally posess the gun and all components, in NY atleast, you cannot shoot it without a Permit. Many Police agencies are not even clear on the laws governing BP. Check your local Gov. website, but for the time being err on the side of caution and assume you cannot.
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:08 AM #6 (permalink)
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Michigan along with New Jersey, Illinois and California is just another Commie state with idiotic gun laws. Call the local police station and ask them about gun laws in your area.
 
another

DrDanke
March 5th, 2004, 10:27 PM
I was browsing the Cabelas catalogue, and I would LOVE to have one of these black powder pistols. They look like they would be a load of fun, and a nice addition to my collection. I'm just not sure if they need an FFL transfer? The website states that Illinois and Michigan need to go through the FFL center, but does that mean that all other places can ship it right to your door without FFL? This is the one I was looking at, it's looks like a nice piece of stainless.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&hasJS=true

EDIT: The final price would be around $400 right to my door. I think that's great for a cool stainless BP pistol. Does anyone have any experience firing these?
 
Cabela's requirements for BP CB to Michigan- ain't exactly easy cut and dry, now is it

http://cabelas.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...D1taWNoaWdhbiBmaXJlYXJtcw**&p_li=&p_topview=1


Michigan firearm purchase from Cabela's
Question


How may a resident of Michigan order a firearm from Cabela's?
Answer


Cartridge Rifle or Pistol: Follow the standard instructions for ordering cartridge firearms from Cabela’s.

Click here for Cartridge Firearm ordering instructions.

Air Pistol (two forms are needed): Customer must complete and supply 2 of the following 3 possible forms:

- Must supply Cabela’s with a completed Trigger Lock Statement Form (TLS)

- Must supply Cabela’s with either an Application and License to Purchase a Pistol form (MUST be obtained from their local police department) OR if customer already possess a valid Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) license, then all they fill out is the four part Pistol Sales Record form and send that in with the Trigger Lock Statement (described above)

- Application and License to Purchase a Piston form – must be obtained from your local police department.

Click here for Trigger Lock statement, Pistol Sales Record form and instructions how to complete.

Pellet Rifle (two forms needed): Customer will need to supply Cabela’s with 2 forms, a Verification Of Information form (VOI) and a Trigger Lock Statement form (TLS).

Click Here for Verification Of Information form, Trigger Lock Statement and instructions how to complete.

Paint Ball Marker (one form needed): Customer must supply Cabela’s with a Verification Of Information form (VOI).

Click here for a Verification Of Information form and instructions how to complete.

Muzzle loading Rifle/Black Powder Pistol (one form needed): Customer must supply Cabela’s with a Verification Of Information form (VOI).

Click Here for Verification Of Information form and instructions how to complete.



for cripes sake, you need a VOI form for a BB gun, airgun, and paint ball gun in Michigan- and 2 forms just to buy a BB gun there, with a trigger lock statement- for a friggin' BB gun we can buy at Walmart here, and walk out with
 
so after clicking on 3 pages to buy a BP gun from Cabela's shipped to Michigan, this form comes up finally

yeh, I'll be shipping a BP pistol there...NOT !! :confused::rolleyes:

http://information.cabelas.com/customer_service/gl_form1_blkpwdmi.html

Cabela's, Inc.
CR Gun Department
One Cabela Drive
Sidney, NE 69160

Michigan Resident Instructions for ordering Black Powder Rifles and Revolvers:

A Verification of Information form (VOI) must be completed and returned to Cabela's CR Gun Department, before an order can be processed.* VOI forms can be submitted to the Cabela's Customer Relations (CR) Gun Dept by Mail, Fax, or Email.

The Verification of Information (VOI) form must be notarized and verifies the customer's age and Identity. The notarized Verification of Information Form is placed on file for future orders, and needs to be sent one time only. VOI forms may be returned to:

Cabela's, Inc.
ATTN CR Gun Department
One Cabela Drive
Sidney, NE 69160

Fax: 1-888-252-3989
Email: crgundept@cabelas.com

Please include your customer number in the provided blank:
 
Michigan trigger lock statement- just for a BB gun

yeh, this makes sense

I'd wager Cabela's ain't sellin' to many BB guns to Michigan by mail order;)


http://information.cabelas.com/customer_service/gl_form5_airpistolmi.html



Cabela's, Inc.
ATTN CR Gun Department
One Cabela Drive
Sidney, NE 69160

Michigan Resident Instructions for ordering Air Pistol:

An Application and License to Purchase a Pistol form must be obtained from your local police station. Please complete both sides, front and back and have it notarized. Please make sure the notary stamp or seal is clearly printed on the form. The Application and License to Purchse a Pistol form must be filled out in the name of the air pistol recipient.

In lieu of the Application and License to Purchase a Pistol form, CCW holders may complete the included, Pistol Sales Record (all four sections) and return.

Additionally, a Trigger Lock Statement (TLS) must be completed and returned to Cabela's CR Gun Department, before an order can be processed. One Trigger Lock Statement is required per order, not per gun.

We will delay processing on your order for a maximum of four weeks from the date of you receiving this information while we wait for your response*. If a response is not received within that time frame the order will be cancelled.

All order forms can only be mailed back with original ink signatures to the Cabela's Customer Relations (CR) Gun Department.

Cabela's, Inc.
ATTN CR Gun Department
One Cabela Drive
Sidney, NE 69160
 
don't forget this one- that dreaded deadly paint ball gun- Michigan requires this form, for a paint ball marker, to buy a paint ball gun from Cabela's

nice...

imagine what Michigan police would do to you, if you just sent a Walker pistol into Michigan with no paperwork- they'd lock you up in the slammer, and throw away the key

http://information.cabelas.com/customer_service/gl_form2_pntball.html

Cabela's, Inc.
ATTN CR Gun Department
One Cabela Drive
Sidney, NE 69160

Michigan Resident Instructions for ordering Paintball Markers:

A Verification of Information form (VOI) must be completed and returned to Cabela's CR Gun Department, before an order can be processed.* VOI forms can be submitted to the Cabela's Customer Relations (CR) Gun Dept by Mail, Fax, or Email.

The Verification of Information (VOI) form must be notarized and verifies the customer's age and Identity. The notarized Verification of Information Form is placed on file for future orders, and needs to be sent one time only. VOI forms may be returned to:

Cabela's, Inc.
ATTN CR Gun Department
One Cabela Drive
Sidney, NE 69160

Fax: 1-888-252-3989
Email: crgundept@cabelas.com

Please include your customer number in the provided blank:
 
I don't know about Michigan, but there is absolutely NO LAW preventing direct to your door shipping of BP pistols in CA (Surprisingly).
 
Shipping to CA

I would like to add that when shipping via UPS you must use their computer to fill out the shipping ticket and on this ticket it asks - what you are shipping - which in reality is none of their business. Anyway, when you enter black powder/antique etc. they will tell you it must go to an ffl, which it DOES NOT. They just don't know the laws. The Post office is different, they just want to know if it is hazardous, fragile etc. - tell them no and ship. I have been through this hundreds of times. Shipping overseas is different. Now as to N.Y. I believe just the city has a rule against shipping black powder rifearms. Same for N..J. - But then again I think they are foreign countries with their laws anyway. I pitty the people that live there. Just one last word. State/City/County laws outrank federal laws when it comes to firearms. Hope that clears things up.
 
Best thing to do is to check the jurisdiction of the state and then city that one intends to ship to. For instance, the California Department of Justice has a website with all their gun laws posted. I'm sure other states do the same.
 
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