Last Night

[SundownRider]

rellascout,
I don't really understand the purpose of your post. At no point did I say I felt threatened, I reacted to an individual who had no clear purpose for being where he was who and who acted in an inappropriate manner relative to the situation.
I upped my usual preparations because the possibility of something happening seemed more likely than usual.

Had I acted like a "mall ninja" I would likely have done something stupid that might have put me or mine in harms way or at least left me with a lot of explaining to do to the local authorities.

Again, what was your purpose? Without meaningful contribution, discourse is impossible.

 

[Wildalaska]

Call the police whenever they are on the property and inflate the incident if necessary.

Great....so some twerp STEPS on your property and you call the cops and screech "man with a gun"?

What planet are we living on here? Its a punkass kid that feeds off of your angst. I was a punkass kid and so was everybody on this Board at some point in their lives.

So what do you suggest be done? It seems to me that you would have us do nothing.

Exactly. The brat is on the street. You watch him if you are so inclined. Learn to recognize hinkiness. A teenager standing on the corner playing pocket pool and flippin off an adult who stares him down isnt hinky.

I live in an area crawling with hinkies. I dont even look at the pimple punkies with their skateboards and black clothes, all they want is attention anyway. Save condtion yellow for the real threats, not some kid trying to pull your chain to vindicate his own teenage self worth.

Wildandplus1torellascoutAlaska ™

 

[wayneinFL]

You know, I was going to say it was paranoid for the OP to load a gun in this case, but I keep a 38 loaded all the time, so that would make me a bit of a hypocrite.

Wild, I was a punkass kid too, but a lot of my punkass friends would vandalize, shoplift, or break windows and steal out of cars because they thought it was cool.

It doesn't hurt to call the police if things seem suspicious. If this is something out of place in the neighborhood, that kid might be a lookout for someone burglarizing your neighbor or setting his house on fire.

Maybe he's "just a teenager", but maybe he's one of the many teenagers who commits property crimes because it's a thrill that doesn't result in a lot of jail time.

 

[Musketeer]

I really don't understand someone, anyone please explain this to me. Stories like this make gun owners sound like a bunch of want to be chuck norris mall ninjas.

He saw a strange kid hanging out where he never saw him before. He was also in a neighborhood that has been burglarized multiple times.

Was he going to go into the house of the person who he interacted with that night? Probably not.

Was he looking to see what other houses he could target that evening? Possibly.

Some here make the assumption that the OP lives where there are tons of people just wanderring the street. In most of rural and suburbia that is not the case. If someone is hanging out on a residential block (just houses, no stores or such) where they do not live they deserve observation. It only makes sense. It also makes good sense to let the kid know he is being watched.

Recently we had the mailboxes on our block all vandalized one night. The police specifically stated to call and let them know of any suspicious groups we see in the area and that they would increase patrols based on the mailboxes and other vandalism to see "who was out and about." Just a couple weeks earlier they had caught some kids doing "fence diving" (going through PVC fences) by patroling areas where it had happenned and responding to reports of suspicious activity.

Now would the OP mentioning he topped of his gun that night make a difference, most likely not. The situation though set off a warning of some sort in him and if being a little more prepared was the result then it was good. Many people who get a "bad feeling" about an individual and can't immediately identify why are often proven to be right. Our mind works at many levels and one should not ignore "intuition" when it comes to personal safety. That does not make one paranoid, simply responsible. I don't need to top off my gun, it already is. Hopefully the OP's gun is also now.

I was a punkass kid and so was everybody on this Board at some point in their lives.

I was a young kid but was never a punkass. Perhaps you were but please don't speak for anyone else.

Exactly. The brat is on the street. You watch him if you are so inclined. Learn to recognize hinkiness. A teenager standing on the corner playing pocket pool and flippin off an adult who stares him down isnt hinky.

You do not know the exact details. You assume random youths normally stand around on this street. What set off the OP's alarms I am not certain. Again, there have been multiple robberies in the area and a strange youth hanging out for no apparent reason where he has not been seen before IS hinky.

If you think you should only go to condition yellow when trouble presents itself you are by default walking around in condition white. That is NOT the smart thing to do. The good news is by walking around in white all the time you will rarely have to be concerned with yellow... you will just stumble straight into red if it happens.

 

[Wildalaska]

If you think you should only go to condition yellow when trouble presents itself you are by default walking around in condition white.

You know what, I'm going to vent here

I'm 52 years old. I lived in the east Village of NYC when the crime rate there made Houston, TX or washington DC look like a nursery school. I drove taxi in NYC on the graveyard shift. I lived in Cabbagetown in Toronto with a Frenchie Canadian stripper while it was still a slum, not the yuppified area it is today and I couldnt even HAVE a gun. I lived on the far West Side of Buffalo NY and dealt with Hispanic gangbangers everyday. I live now in what is notoriously the wierdest neighborhood in Alaska where, a few years ago, crack whores outnumbered cops and even now, there are more drunks then moose. I've walked from the US border through Tijuana at night, I've been in neighborhoods in Moscow where even Russians feared to tread, I've stepped over freshly shot bodies on the East Side of NY, I got drunk in some club in Pattaya, Thailand that was off limits to 98% of white folks, I had a girlfriend who lived in downtown Detroit and I was the only white guy around for 20 miles, I've rode loads of weed from Florida to NJ in the early 70s (aha, stat of lims expired), I've been robbed in a subway, beaten by the NYC and Philadelphia Police, spent the night in a mexican jail, been berated by some German cop, wandered through poor villages and neigborhoods in Venezuela and my first adult (age 21) job entailed me working in the Buffalo, NY, City Lockup watching the drunks and crazies toss poop at each other. I have forgotten about more hookers, pimps, dope dealers, hitmen, touts, gamblers, hustlers, strippers, thieves, dope dealers and assorted skells than a random sample of 50 of you ever met in total. I'm just a simple and kind nice jewish boy from NY and I have a habit of watching EVERYBODY I see, but ya know what, life is WAY TOO SHORT to live life in a constant state of alert readiness UNLESS there is something to make one alert...and I carry a little gun (when I can find it), take a shower unarmed, and think a tactical roll is an exotic sushi treat.

Im still alive (I think)

And absent more, some pimply angst ridden teenager who resents authority, like we all did, isnt even going to blip my radar unless I sense hinkiness, which concept I have expounded previously and which trained LE or observant folks easily recognize..

And in all those travails, I havent even seen the elephant, lucky for me.

My humble opinion is that some folks watch too much TV, and not enough life.

Rant finished

WildlunchoverbacktoworkAlaska ™

 

[springmom]

Wild, we need an applause smiley. Well said.

I cannot BELIEVE the people on this thread who would intentionally escalate into a confrontation with a kid standing on the street. Myself, I do always carry, even at home (although not in the shower....RUST.... ) but the idea of seeing some kid outside and STARTING a confrontation to "teach him respect" when I am armed is a quick recipe for some time in state jail and loss of my RKBA. In Texas, at least (and I'm betting in other jurisdictions too) if you "started it" by engaging in a verbal confrontation, you have ZERO rights for SD. At that point you are the aggressor. Want to go to jail? Go beat up the punk for flipping you off.

Springsomepeopleseriouslyneedtogrowupmom

 

[Creature]

Yet another vote to stick our collective heads in the sand. Hooray!

And "I have seen the elephant"...wow. Wanna compare scars too? Just like old faithful you never let us down with your with boorish condescension. After all that you claim to have seen, you continue to prescribe the fetal position.

Obviously I came away from my crappy past with a completely different point of view, but so be it.

My rant is over too.

 

[Justme]

Well, I still love flipping teenagers off. Try it sometime! No surer way in the world to make a 17 year old laugh. Flipping off a teenager is not escalating the situation, in fact the exact opposite is true. It's communicating on their terms, surprisingly effective.

 

[Wildalaska]

Just like old faithful you never let us down with your with boorish condescension.

Hurts doesnt it...that I can ENJOY life.... Thats why you feel compelled to ad hominem....jealousy...just because I'm happy and don't jump when someone says boo

The glass isn't half empty...it's half full

And "I have seen the elephant"...wow. Wanna compare scars too? J

You're the one whippin out the ruler, not me

WildoneloveoneheartletsgettogetherandfeelallrightAlaska ™

 

[Justme]

I haven't "seen the elephant" but,
I thing I rode one once.

Hey, would someone get up here and help me control this wild horse I am trying to ride? "Dude, what the hell are you doing trying to ride a tiger?"

We used to have a saying that defined a "good weekend". "Hey, you look like you been shot at and missed but $hit at and hit." Been there and done that and do not begrudge the next generation the dubious pleasures to be had in such situations.

 

[Avenger11]

I'm going to agree with Wild and Springmom on this one.My past is not quite as exciting as Wild's, but my 61 years has provided some life experience that could help illuminate this issue.
I live in a nice neighborhood full of teenagers.They hang around alot and it's not unusual for a group to form in our cul-de-sac. None have ever flipped me off, but if one did it certaintly would not send me into condition whatever!
I too choose to not to live in a constant state of fear or paranoia. It's a quality of life decision.
Wild was a punk-ass kid, I was just a punk.

 

[03Shadowbob]

You know what gets me is that a lot of Gun rights activists always say the police have too much power, LE is too intrusive, government is doing everything they can to control us, etc. etc. yet when some kid is hanging out in front of someone's house a lot of those same above listed people scream CALL THE COPS!! Kind of an oxymoron to me. Last time I checked it was not illegal to stand on the street yet you want to waste the cops time and get them involved in your life because of it.
God forbid the kid is waiting outside for a friend or girlfriend. And honestly if you are the type of person who would make sure your gun is cocked and locked because someone is standing out front I am sure you didn't have friendly body language, instead had a scowl on your face and tough guy body language expressing THIS IS MY STREET PUNK.
I would have flipped you off also and probably still would today.
Just calling it like I see it.

 

[PT111]

03Shadowbob: That was sort of my reaction to this. Someone posted about the cops finding out who he is but if he had been wearing a gun and the police started hassling him everyone would be up in arms about it.

 

[grymster2007]

After reading the OP, I gathered all of my equipment and hunkered down in the atrium all day. Didn’t go to work…. just sat there in condition red.…waiting. Finally worked up the nerve to check the forum. Read Wild’s post and it occurred to me that I had seen all that pansy-a## stuff before turning age 12.

I’m throwing all of my stuff in the trash can, combing my hair straight forward, dressing in a dayglow green leisure suit and heading for West Oakland tonight… flip me off some bruthas!

BTW: I did see the elephant….. big full length mirror in the wife’s closet…. I think that sight alone might cause the BG pause enough for me to get away. Can hear him now….”damn fat bastard’s gonna make a mess…. probably scream holy hell too…. bleed all over the place... roll around in agony… moanin’ and all ugly and stuff”.

 

[P5 Guy]

I would have waved and said "Hi, how you doing" not given the guy hard looks. But I'm a blissninny I guess.

 

[Wildalaska]

I would have waved and said "Hi, how you doing" not given the guy hard looks. But I'm a blissninny I guess.

Friendly smiles and hellos to strangers arent tactical

WildicouldcommentonrealityvstvbutamtoofatAlaska TM

 

[gvf]

WildAlaska hit a very necessary point. As I said earlier: SD and guns have two benefits: an effective tool if ever lethally attacked, and more ease of mind at other times.
Yet since the first, a lethal attack is highly unlikely even once in life, the ease of mind is the actual benefit we have or can have. Yet, if SD becomes an obsession and your life is lived in constant hyper-alert as if we all lived in a war zone, then you've lost that benefit. Out of the many dangers in life, violent crime is one, and much less probable than that we will injure/kill others in car accidents, or be injured/killed by other cars, or that for those of us middle-aged we will have a heart attack, stroke etc. Preparation to avoid these things is fine, but if it doesn't approximate the actual danger, we all will be reading health magazines all day, constantly checking our cars for the least sign that brakes or airbags will fail, put our families through nightly fire-drills, and have thermal imaging devices on our roofs to spot would-be home invaders. This is no way to live.

Somethings going to get you. That's the way it is. The rest: reasonable precautions, and enjoy the time we have.

A kid in daylight/early evening who gives you the flip and is standing near the street? Well, OK, he could be planning to cut down the neighborhood. Or he could be a kid, who doesn't like an older man staring at him for obvious reasons, or he's rude, or whatever - This is not an incident. It's just another day.

 

[Doggieman]

Are there a lot of people on this board who post when drunk?

I don't know it just seems like the quality of discussion drops significantly after the first page on pretty much every thread I read nowadays.

Anyway, I think this was all right for the OP to do. If the kid was 8 years old, maybe a little overreaction. If the kid was 18 I think not.

I'd rather my neighbors overreact and call the cops if some hooligans are loitering around rather than "suck it up" and try to be all nice about it. Nip those things in the bud I say. No sense in letting things get out of hand before calling the cops.

Of course where I live the cops woulda taken about 3 hours to get there. I've called them on several occasions and unless somebody has just been killed it will take at least 20-30 mins for them to show. By that time everything is over and I end up looking like a jerk.

 

[Musketeer]

Somewhere between keeping your head in the sand and ignoring suspicious characters hagning out on a residential block with a history of break ins and instigating a confrontation to the level of trying to impress the teen with the size of your manliness compared to his is the coorect response.

The OP's actions in calling the police were correct.

The OP's actions in topping off the gun just for the one punk who seemd to concern him were overboard but if this situation led him to keep his gun in the condition it should have been anyway I am not going to complain.

I want my neighbors to notice if some strange kid is casing my house. I would also like them to let the police know if said kid is there and there is a history of break ins.

I have no problem asking a kid hanging out for no apparent reason what he is doing there. He is free to stand there and I am free to ask him a question. His reaction should say much, even if he doesn't. Perhaps his car is broken down and I can offer to let use the phone. Perhaps he is casing the area and knowing that someone is watching him will make him reconsider the location he is casing. Nothing wrong with that. Now if the kid decides to flip me off I am not going to respond except to take his picture. No law broken there and I have a photo of a suspect for any problems in the area.

Wild has seen many bad places. The judgement in placing oneself in such locales is not the point of this discussion but assuming even half of what he said is true (which I believe it is) he has seen more low lifes than most people outside law enforcement ever will. We can all assume he knows suspicious activity when he sees it and stated he observes those around him. That is NOT condition white. That is the definition of yellow. Condition white is drinking pina coladas to the point of numbness on the beach without a care in the world. Condition white is wanderring around and not paying attention to any of the people around you.

 

[Musketeer]

Flipping off a teenager is not escalating the situation, in fact the exact opposite is true. It's communicating on their terms, surprisingly effective.

If I were on the grand jury deciding if charges were warranted for your defensive shooting I would consider flipping off the teen, voluntarily participating in insulting conversation, contributory to the escalation. I bet others would also. It all has to do with context which is very hard to establish after a shooting has taken place. Perhaps a flip off can be considerred "friendly" in some places but I know this, it is by definition insulting and lacking solid information to the contrary that is how most mature individuals will interpret it. I can tell my boss, who I get along with, in jest "FU" and we can both laugh about it. If I were hauled in front of HR though with the black and white accusation of having said "FU" to my boss I better be certain my boss will back up that it was a joke between us. Do you have confidence the other parties in a possible hearing to justify your shooting would back you up?

Flip off who you want but we all have to eventually grow up and stop acting like disrepectful teens eventually if we want to be taken seriously by other mature adults.