Laser sight on rifle

I remember in the early 90’s, I bought a laser pointer on impulse for a considerable amount of money. It was pretty much a novelty item and used hard to find AAAA batteries, not a typo, quadruple A.
Now they are sub-5$ and still fun for cat owners.
 
Back then, laser sights were about the size of a carton of cigarettes, were mounted under rifle barrels...
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The first one I saw in the late 1980s was about 8"x3"x1" with a separate battery pack attached by a short cord. I don't remember the price but I remember thinking it was ridiculously expensive. Obviously only suitable for use with rifles. As I recall, it did not use a solid state laser source.

Using laser diodes made them more practical, especially as their performance increased and their cost came down. From about 1985 to 2000, the cost per watt for laser diodes dropped by a factor of 100 and then from 2000 to about 2011, it dropped again by a factor of 100.
 
Y’all remember the size of the old MILES gear? I’m not sure how big the current versions are anymore but the old stuff was pretty big.
I know there’s more stuff in there than just a laser and it must’ve been a challenge back then to engineer that to fit on a rifle barrel.
 
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JohnKSa said:
Correct. The gas spring and metal spring-piston airguns have an odd recoil that operates in two directions. First backwards when the piston drives forward to compress the air and then an abrupt bump forwards at the end of piston travel. In scopes that aren't braced properly to handle recoil in both directions, that can be a problem.



Airguns shooting conventional pellets have limited range due to the very poor BC of conventional pellets. The more powerful pneumatic airguns can shoot projectiles that are much more "bullet-like" than a typical pellet and that can stretch the range significantly beyond what is traditionally thought of as airgun limits. They operate more in the realm of what might be expected of black powder firearms.
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There really isn't much of backwards recoil unless shooting heavy big bore slugs. It is the forward recoil caused by the piston mass that does the scope in, usually in the form of reticle detachment. Even that may not be a problem with newer etched reticles.

I haven't tinker with airgun slugs yet. Generally it requires different barrel (they call it liner) that probably have rifling profile different from pellet. The latest kind of slug is the hybrid slug that is designed to fire in pellet barrels. But they are expensive (close to 20 cents a round).

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
The initial backwards recoil happens from the piston driving forward under the force of the metal or gas spring to compress the air. I don't believe it is going to cause scope damage, but it's definitely there. The piston probably weighs around a pound in a strong springer and is driven forward by a very powerful spring.

As far as recoil from the actual projectile goes, that's essentially negligible in a spring piston gun. The noticeable recoil is from the movement of the piston.

You are correct that the forward "recoil" due to the piston coming to an abrupt stop at the end of its compression stroke is what causes trouble with scopes.
 
JohnKSa said:
The initial backwards recoil happens from the piston driving forward under the force of the metal or gas spring to compress the air. I don't believe it is going to cause scope damage, but it's definitely there. The piston probably weighs around a pound in a strong springer and is driven forward by a very powerful spring.



As far as recoil from the actual projectile goes, that's essentially negligible in a spring piston gun. The noticeable recoil is from the movement of the piston.



You are correct that the forward "recoil" due to the piston coming to an abrupt stop at the end of its compression stroke is what causes trouble with scopes.
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You are right. I overlooked the backward recoil caused by piston accelerates forward. Thanks.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
The gas piston guns which have little or no vibration will also eat scopes that aren't braced properly, so the odd recoil is at least part of it.

I doubt that the vibration from the spring in the spring-piston guns is good for scopes either.
 
I've seen those ads, too. Back then, laser sights were about the size of a carton of cigarettes, were mounted under rifle barrels, and at least one model was marketed with prison guards in mind.
The idea being that the visible dot would also be a deterrent, and I'm sure it was.

However, prison inmates know they are under observation, and knew the guards had laser sights, so were aware of the dot and its meaning. A laser sight's primary function is as a sighting device. A secondary function as a deterrent only works when the subject knows its there.
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Interesting. In over 22 years behind the wire I have never seen a laser sight on any firearms here, not regular issue, not tactical issue or specialty issue. Red dots and scopes, sure, never a laser. Never heard of that one before. I did have Crimson Trace grips on my CZ P-01 MANY years ago, and it was really not that much help.
 
The only problem with having a laser on a seldom-used house defense handgun is that by the time you need it for an emergency, the battery may be dead!!! We all like toys, even those that take batteries, but at my age, I'm not so good about changing the batteries in my flashlights, much less laser sights on guns that I don't use often.
 
What kills scopes on certain airguns is the shock of the sudden stop in the forward (towards the muzzle) direction. Firearms scopes are made to handle the recoil even from the hardest kickers in the usual direction, but most are not made to handle the energy in the opposite direction.

Some scopes are built to take the force in both directions. Airgun scopes, and I understand Archery scopes are made that way.

I see laser sights as a "double edged sword" in the sense that while there are obvious advantages, there are disadvantages as well. I know training and practice does work, but I would need more than a bit to overcome a lifetime of regular iron sight use, and until I mastered that, I would be "hunting for the dot" which is not a good thing in a defensive situation.

However I also see a downside to being well trained to using the dot, and that is what happens when there is no dot??

If the laser fails (for any reason) or if you (for whatever reason) are using a weapon without the laser, and you've trained extensively to use the laser, I think that could be a disadvantage if your mind (conscious or subconscious) follows its training and focuses on finding the dot, that isn't there...

For sport, and recreation I enjoy using a variety of guns with various sighting systems, and controls in different places and different methods of operation.

For defense, and firearms intended to be useful when you don't have time to think about it, I think one standard is the best way to go.
 
Some scopes are built to take the force in both directions. Airgun scopes, and I understand Archery scopes are made that way.
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There are some mainline scope companies that brace their scopes properly to stand up to spring-piston/gas-piston recoil. If I recall correctly, Leupold is one example.
 
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