Marco Califo
New member
Yep. Unhelpful and snarky replies are the thread deathknell.
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Large Rifle Primers - standard or magnum?
- Thread starter Marco Califo
- Start date
My "Rules of Thumb" is to use reliable published load data and use a regular or magnum primer as indicated by the load data . Some powders need magnum primers and some don't . Sometimes in large capacity cases the volume of powder is helped by a magnum primer . I have found no reliable way to determine when to use what so I just go by the book .
I also avoid U-tube reloading video's , except by the makers of reloading components and those by Midway USA ... some of those "experts" are scary !
Loading manuals have come a long way since my second manual bought in 1970 for pistol loading ... Speer #8 ... I used that one for 20 years before I found out how hot the loads were ... I assumed Speer knew what they were doing !
Gary
I also avoid U-tube reloading video's , except by the makers of reloading components and those by Midway USA ... some of those "experts" are scary !
Loading manuals have come a long way since my second manual bought in 1970 for pistol loading ... Speer #8 ... I used that one for 20 years before I found out how hot the loads were ... I assumed Speer knew what they were doing !
Gary
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I mean, if you never blew your face off, they did kinda know what they were doing.My "Rules of Thumb" is to use reliable published load data and use a regular or magnum primer as indicated by the load data . Some powders need magnum primers and some don't . Sometimes in large capacity cases the volume of powder is helped by a magnum primer . I have found no reliable way to determine when to use what so I just go by the book .
I also avoid U-tube reloading video's , except by the makers of reloading components and those by Midway USA ... some of those "experts" are scary !
Loading manuals have come a long way since my second manual bought in 1970 for pistol loading ... Speer #8 ... I used that one for 20 years before I found out how hot the loads were ... I assumed Speer knew what they were doing !
Gary
I mostly watch johnnies reloading bench. Its a great channel, and i have learned a lot from it. But i always cross reference anything i see online with my manuals before even considering the bullet/powder combo, and stay within the specs in my manual.
DWP said, "Loading manuals have come a long way since my second manual bought in 1970 for pistol loading ... Speer #8 ... I used that one for 20 years before I found out how hot the loads were ... I assumed Speer knew what they were doing !
IIRC, that manual was rather short lived as Speer replaced it with the #9 fairly quick. Seems they were using the copper crusher method of measuring pressure and were given the wrong tarage table for the copper test pieces. The #8 manual c some bad data because of this and I have no idea which sets of loads are potentially dangerous. The fault was not Speer's but the people that gave then the wrong data.
Paul B.
IIRC, that manual was rather short lived as Speer replaced it with the #9 fairly quick. Seems they were using the copper crusher method of measuring pressure and were given the wrong tarage table for the copper test pieces. The #8 manual c some bad data because of this and I have no idea which sets of loads are potentially dangerous. The fault was not Speer's but the people that gave then the wrong data.
Paul B.
Manufacturers have teams of scientists and decades of experience with reloading; therefore, they have developed safe operating guidelines for their components. Magnum primers in standard cartridges will raise pressure and I'm not willing to risk the possibility of a catastrophic failure."
If you follow the practice of starting low and working up that should not be a problem regardless of whether the primer is standard or magnum.
Speer literally thinks all ball type powders must se magnum primers. I run a lot of WMR powder, Winchester Magnum Rifle is the full name and I use it in the .270 Win., .280 Rem. and .300 Win. mag. using standard Winchester or CCI primers and groups are tigh and velocity good. I shot those loads in temps as low as 4 above zero and they worked just fine. I tried magnum primer with little velocity change and accuracy was not as good.
I also do most, if not all my load work ups during the hot Arizona summers. Any problems with high temps shows up soon enough. The same loads worked up shot just fine at temps near zero on a New Mexico hunt and I had no problem filling out my elk tags.
Paul B.
Paul B.
If you follow the practice of starting low and working up that should not be a problem regardless of whether the primer is standard or magnum.
Speer literally thinks all ball type powders must se magnum primers. I run a lot of WMR powder, Winchester Magnum Rifle is the full name and I use it in the .270 Win., .280 Rem. and .300 Win. mag. using standard Winchester or CCI primers and groups are tigh and velocity good. I shot those loads in temps as low as 4 above zero and they worked just fine. I tried magnum primer with little velocity change and accuracy was not as good.
I also do most, if not all my load work ups during the hot Arizona summers. Any problems with high temps shows up soon enough. The same loads worked up shot just fine at temps near zero on a New Mexico hunt and I had no problem filling out my elk tags.
Paul B.
Paul B.
If the case says Magnum I use Magnum or Winchester LRP. When using ball powder in a rifle case like .243 Win I use magnum or wlrp. I found with H414 in the .243 I got hard bolt lift and extraction with CCI 200 primers at starting loads. Switched to a hotter primer and issues went away.
Black wallnut
New member
Ahh, a thread from December '22! Those claiming that they only follow what is listed are likely not. Each loading manual lists each component by brand and type. Change any one thing and their data and your results may vary. I use mag primers for Mag loads and some small charge fast burning powder cast bullet loads, where pressure is not an issue. Otherwise I use LRP. If I were to give advice it would be use what you have but start low and work up in small steps paying close attention to velocity, extraction, or any unusual signs like hangfire. If you hit the velocity with a given bullet/powder combination call it quits.
When I first started reloading for my rifles, figuring out which Large Rifle primers to use felt like diving into the deep end. For my 7mm-08, I opted for magnums initially, thinking they'd give me that extra kick. But after some trials, I found the regular LR primers actually gave me better consistency with my loads. For my 300 WM, it was a bit different—magnum primers seemed to work best, especially with ball powders, ensuring reliable ignition every time. Experimenting with WC872 was another journey altogether, but it taught me a lot about the nuances of primer choice.
I'm coming onto this late only because I was at the range today, testing magnum vs conventional (non-Mag) primers in the same load in my .270. I did not chronograph any shots, but I probably should have.
I have a Rem. BDL 700 that I purchased in 1968, but I burned the barrel out (I guess) in 10 years and I sent it back to Remington because I was getting vertical impact points and I wanted their opinion. They just installed a new barrel. Anyway, I harvested a buck in 1977 with a Hornady 150gr R.N. at less than 100 yards and he dropped right where he stood. Since that time, I've moved to up to 300 yard hunts so I transferred my interest to more ballistically superior projectiles, and I settled successfully on Hornady's 150gr Spire point. Getting melancholy at my advanced age I decided to compare the RN I had left to the Spires using Magnum and Non-Mag primers with 56.0gr of H4831.
I had previously found the best seating depth for the RN was 0.08" and 0.02" for the spire. I had 5 rounds each for the 4 series but since the temp this morning was already 89 degrees, I just started each group with 3 shots, keeping in mind 44AMP's observation that one shouldn't need more than 1 shot when hunting, so why fire 5?
The 150gr RN at 0.08" gave me a 0.661" group of 3 shots with a Federal 215 Mag primer at 100 yards. All 3 shots were inside a 1-inch bull.
The CCI 200 mag delivered a 0.598 three-shot group that had the first shot in the bull at 5 o'clock and the next 2 vertically below it, all touching edges.
That's where it would have been nice to have chronographed them.
The Hornady 150gr Spire was next, at 0.02" seat from the leade. 3 shots measured 0.348" with the Federal 215 Mag but they landed 1 inch low and 1 inch to the right of the bull.
With the CCI 200 primer the Spire, interestingly, the first shot was at 4 o'clock in the bull, the 2nd was touching the first just outside the bull, and the third was almost 3/4 of an inch below #1. The group measured 0.723"
There was very little outstanding about these results since all groups were under 1 inch, which is well within acceptable for 100-yard hunting. The magnum primer gave a better group with the spire than the CCI-200, and while the CCI-200 was better than the mag with the RN bullet, the difference was only 0.063".
Now, of course, this is in 89-degree, high-humidity weather. It may be quite different in December, so I'll recheck this before we start the 2024 deer season.......
I have a Rem. BDL 700 that I purchased in 1968, but I burned the barrel out (I guess) in 10 years and I sent it back to Remington because I was getting vertical impact points and I wanted their opinion. They just installed a new barrel. Anyway, I harvested a buck in 1977 with a Hornady 150gr R.N. at less than 100 yards and he dropped right where he stood. Since that time, I've moved to up to 300 yard hunts so I transferred my interest to more ballistically superior projectiles, and I settled successfully on Hornady's 150gr Spire point. Getting melancholy at my advanced age I decided to compare the RN I had left to the Spires using Magnum and Non-Mag primers with 56.0gr of H4831.
I had previously found the best seating depth for the RN was 0.08" and 0.02" for the spire. I had 5 rounds each for the 4 series but since the temp this morning was already 89 degrees, I just started each group with 3 shots, keeping in mind 44AMP's observation that one shouldn't need more than 1 shot when hunting, so why fire 5?
The 150gr RN at 0.08" gave me a 0.661" group of 3 shots with a Federal 215 Mag primer at 100 yards. All 3 shots were inside a 1-inch bull.
The CCI 200 mag delivered a 0.598 three-shot group that had the first shot in the bull at 5 o'clock and the next 2 vertically below it, all touching edges.
That's where it would have been nice to have chronographed them.
The Hornady 150gr Spire was next, at 0.02" seat from the leade. 3 shots measured 0.348" with the Federal 215 Mag but they landed 1 inch low and 1 inch to the right of the bull.
With the CCI 200 primer the Spire, interestingly, the first shot was at 4 o'clock in the bull, the 2nd was touching the first just outside the bull, and the third was almost 3/4 of an inch below #1. The group measured 0.723"
There was very little outstanding about these results since all groups were under 1 inch, which is well within acceptable for 100-yard hunting. The magnum primer gave a better group with the spire than the CCI-200, and while the CCI-200 was better than the mag with the RN bullet, the difference was only 0.063".
Now, of course, this is in 89-degree, high-humidity weather. It may be quite different in December, so I'll recheck this before we start the 2024 deer season.......