I recently bought a bulk loose pack 1000 count case of Lake City 5.56mm SS109 ammo for use in my Saiga. I loaded five rounds just to see how it would work. Round three failed to fire. The other four worked fine, so good in fact the four holes in the target were touching. I didn’t continue with the Lake City, I switched over to Wolf. Did I get a one in a million misfire, or can I expect 20% failure to fire in this case? I have shot over one thousand rounds of Wolf without a problem. I was hoping this Lake City stuff would be great ammo. Is it?
Lake City 5.56mm
- Thread starter Mike38
- Start date
madcratebuilder
New member
I don't recall ever having a FTF with LC and I shoot stuff from the 50's. Shoot some more and see if you have another FTF, if so check firing pin protrusion. Is the hammer spring getting tried?
chris in va
New member
Generally speaking LC ammo is considered some of the best you can get your hands on, surplus wise. I'd try it again.
When you say 'failed to fire', did the primer get hit and just not go off? Before people bring up the 5.56/223 thing, the Saiga is chambered for 5.56.
When you say 'failed to fire', did the primer get hit and just not go off? Before people bring up the 5.56/223 thing, the Saiga is chambered for 5.56.
tahunua001
New member
the main problem is that your saiga is a sporter chamber meaning that instead of being chambered in 5.56mm it is chambered in .223 caliber. a lot of people say that it's an old wives tale that you cant shoot 5.56 in a 223 chamber but you can shoot 223 in a 5.56 chamber. the only reservation I have with that is that almost any ammo manufacturer(including federal who is the parent company of american eagle) specifically warns against using 5.56 ammo in a 223 chamber.
does this stop many people from do this? no
do 90% of them ever see problems with it? no
is it a good idea? no
lake city is some of the best ammo you can get a hold of, it's milspec so if the armed forces trust it, anyone else would be kind of fool hardy not to trust it. is there an occasional bad batch? yes but federal is usually pretty good about replacing a bad batch. you may have just gotten a bad run but you may have just as likely just gotten a dud but you may have also just as likely gotten one of the few 223 chambers that just doesn't like 5.56.
you may just need to shoot a few dozen more rounds to make a definitive decision, if you still have 20% fail rate it might be a good idea to find someone with a 5.56 chambered gun to see if they have the same fail rate, if that happens then you may just have to call federal and get a refund, if it works fine then you may just have to stick to 5.56
also, did you try reloading the failed round and trying to fire it a second time? sometimes lake city has tough primers
does this stop many people from do this? no
do 90% of them ever see problems with it? no
is it a good idea? no
lake city is some of the best ammo you can get a hold of, it's milspec so if the armed forces trust it, anyone else would be kind of fool hardy not to trust it. is there an occasional bad batch? yes but federal is usually pretty good about replacing a bad batch. you may have just gotten a bad run but you may have just as likely just gotten a dud but you may have also just as likely gotten one of the few 223 chambers that just doesn't like 5.56.
you may just need to shoot a few dozen more rounds to make a definitive decision, if you still have 20% fail rate it might be a good idea to find someone with a 5.56 chambered gun to see if they have the same fail rate, if that happens then you may just have to call federal and get a refund, if it works fine then you may just have to stick to 5.56
also, did you try reloading the failed round and trying to fire it a second time? sometimes lake city has tough primers
MythBuster
New member
Is this original LC factory ammo or gun show reloads using LC brass.
I have went though at least 6 thousand round of LC 5.56 over the years and I can't remember having a single misfire.
I have went though at least 6 thousand round of LC 5.56 over the years and I can't remember having a single misfire.
I single loaded the failed to fire round and it worked on the second attempt. As for the chamber, I have been told that a Saiga is actually 5.56 even though it is stamped .223. I could have been told wrong. I bought the ammo from ammoman.com web site. It is advertised as new so I don’t think it’s reloaded.
As mentioned earlier by 1Hobie, five rounds is hardly a test. I’ll run 100 rounds through it next time I’m at the range to get a better test base. I didn’t know if LC 5.56 is good or not. If it’s the same stuff sold to the military, it has to be at the least above average.
It is incredibly accurate. The four rounds that did fire where all touching on paper at 50 yards. Wolf is lucky to give me 3 inch groups at 50 yards. Thanks.
As mentioned earlier by 1Hobie, five rounds is hardly a test. I’ll run 100 rounds through it next time I’m at the range to get a better test base. I didn’t know if LC 5.56 is good or not. If it’s the same stuff sold to the military, it has to be at the least above average.
It is incredibly accurate. The four rounds that did fire where all touching on paper at 50 yards. Wolf is lucky to give me 3 inch groups at 50 yards. Thanks.
yustinus1973
New member
The OP said he was using Lake City Arsenal ammo (thats not salt lake city), its a government arsenal that makes ammo for the military and alike, and it also sells ammo overruns from ammo contracts to the public, its in Missouri near Kansas City, they make a good product. The ammo was the green tip SS109 62gr. stuff, iv heard some Lots of it are good, and some are not so good. I have had both my self, some that i had no problems with, and some that i did, never had any trouble with there XM193 55gr. ammo though. Some don't care for wolf, i don't mind it, ill shot both any time, thats just me though.
Last edited:
LC ammo is not really surplus as much as it is reject that for one reason or another did not meet Mil Spec. Some of it is overrun that should be good but I'm betting not much. I don't know how big of lots they run but if testing random samples of a lot do not measure up they scrap the whole lot. I have shot some LC that was very good and I have shot some that I thought was very inconsistent. I shoot it for range ammo when I can find it for a decent price.
yustinus1973
New member
To your point, i do understand that loose-packed ammo could in deed be "gun show reloads" just using LC brass, how ever Federal/American Eagle do loose pack ammo to, and they get there ammo from LC contract overrun. But i did read carefully and he said.Zak Smith said:
I can only go off of what he said, and that ammo all though maby possibly not loaded at Lake City if its "gun show reloads", is still LC brass M855.Mike38 said:
As for,yustinus1973 said:
Did not mean thats what he was using, just ment that thats the ammo from Lake City, sold by Federal/American Eagle, iv had the best experience with, and the XM193, and M855 ammo iv shot in the past came from LC in battle packs, and it was good stuff for the most part.Zak Smith said:
tahunua001
New member
there is no such that as lake city arsenal either and bill clinton made it illegal to sell either ammo or weapons that are currently standard issue to civilians.
ATK is a company that runs the Lake City Ammunition plant(which is government owned) and they manufacture all their 5.56mm brass there.
since it is only illegal to sell live ammunition to civilians ATK ships the components to two of their subsidiaries(American Eagle and Federal) where they put the primers back in, remeasure the powder and reseat the bullets. they then turn around and sell it as XM193 instead of the military designation M193. if you do find surplus it's been on the market since before the Clinton administration. and most of the faulty lake city brass is reloads.
it would not be legal for ATK to turn around and sell contract overflow or surplus or even out of spec ammo to the general public
Last edited:
Double Naught Spy
New member
Wait, you bought 1000 rounds, shot 5, had 1 problem, and you want to know if we can tell you if you will have a 20% failure rate based on a 0.5% sample rate and 1 time negative event? That would definitely be a question addressed directly to a Magic 8 Ball.
Why did you stop at 5 rounds if you had 995 more you could shoot?
tahunua001
New member
whoa settle down. a saiga has 223 stamped right on the side and he's used to shooting wolf 223 ammo. he bought 1000 rounds of 5.56 which the manufacturers say is a bad idea to use and almost imeidiately had an issue, if you ask me(which you didn't but I'm gunna say it anyway) he made a smart choice rather than take the chance of blowing up a perfectly good gun he stopped and asked the masses. and if you read the whole thread before posting that sarcastic comment you'd see that he actually intends to go back out and test a larger amount of the ammo in question.
not casting stones, I'm just saying that was a little overly critical
ozarkrecluse
New member
That Lzke City ammo is very, very bad. Send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Like anyone who didn't own a Saiga would know it was chambered for .223 and not 5.56 or that it was stamped .223? That wasn't stated above.
So he should not have shot a single round, huh?
No, he did not immediately stop. He fired two more rounds, then stopped. Apparently, you misread.