Lady commits suicide with rented gun at range (suppossedly)

Bulldog

New member
I found the following in the Richardson News this morning (Richardson is a suburb of Dallas, TX). It's fairly long, so pull up a chair and stay a while. This is not official news, as far as I know. It is simply a commentary in the editorial section.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><center>Violence points to loophole in gun control</center>

A woman lost her life yesterday. Violently, by her own hand.

The lady in question entered an area indoor shooting range, paid her fee for a place to shoot at a target, rented a handgun, went in and proceeded to kill herself.

I do not know what brought her to the point of rejecting her life in such a terrible manner. What is important is that she was in an utter state of despair, even at an age--according to the Plano police--still in her thirties, and not only was there evidently no help for her (or, if she had rejected help as she subsequently rejected life itself) how easy it was for her to acqire her means of dispatch.

I am a gun owner.

I have been a shooter since childhood, even shot competition while in the military during the Korean war, and have never committed a crime nor for a moment considered using my weapon upon myself.

We know that there are despairing people in this world. You have only to watch the nightly news to see examples of poverty and misery practically in out own backyards.

It doesn't take a MENSA I.Q. to recognize mental instability in many of them. Any fool knows, of course, that we cannot target and help all of them, or for that matter more than a fraction of the poor benighted souls. What we should do is attempt to at least make it difficult for them to do away with themselves in a public place.

My point is this. You rent a firearm to someone who has no more credentials than a driver's license, and you have just laid open a deadly hive of tragedy. We make it difficult now for a felon to purchase a handgun but present the means of renting one to virtually anyone without question.

No, I am not beating the owners of the shooting range where the poor woman bid her most precious possession goodbye, because they were obeying the law as it is written.

I am castigating those who attempt to make incredibly more stringent laws governing everyday people and yet cavalierly ignore such an egregious loophole. It should be at least as difficult to rent a lethal weapon as it is to purchase one. You want to rent a gun? Fine. Call up a day ahead an furnish them the information to check you out.

I'm not all that concerned about a felon renting a firearm and going berserk with it in the shop. What with practically everybody in ther being armed to the teeth, any felon idiot enough to attempt such a thing would be gunned down in an instant.

No, rather than check out such a person for a criminal background, concentrate on the person's emotional and mental background. If they are known to have a history of drug addiction, mental illness, of the like, it will probably be on record. If so, don't rent them a weapon.

Note than I have suggested a reqirement for gun renters to call ahead 24 hours before picking up the piece. Anyone who has purchased a handgun knows that the idea of a 15-minute check is rediculous. Most likely you will be put on what is called: "DELAY." Which means that you will probably be given permission or denial some time in the next day.

For purchase, the time limit is three days or if no notification is given by then, the prospective buyer is free to go ahead and pick up his purchase. A flawed system, but better than none whatsoever, most will agree. However, a 24-hour wait for confirmation is sufficient for renters, I believe, since their members are far fewer than those actually buying hardware to shoot with.

I will surely take some flak about my views on this, and will be condemned by a looney few as an anti-gun type. If you can label a handgun owner and enthusiastic shooter like myself anti-gun. At one time I even belonged to the NRA, at least until Moses took over and began making lunatic remarks all over the place.

Mr. Heston is a fine actor, but a truism about actors (and I spent 20 years in the Hollywood film industry) is that if you point a camera in their faces long enough, eventually they will find a way to verbally shoot themselves in the foot. No, make that feet.

To sum up, you bet your sweet bippy, I treasure my Second Amendment rights, but when it comes to obeying a set of commandments, I'll stick to the ones God gave the real Moses to deliver.

NRA, go find your own Golden Calf to dismember. Leave mine alone.

Phil Stuart is a North Dallas free-lance writer and frequent contributor to the Richardson News.[/quote]
********************************************

OK. Now for my comments.

A. I have not yet heard any official news about the incident that suppossedly took place at the Bullet Trap (the only indoor range in Plano). Not even a blurb on the news, and not even a one-liner in the back of the Metropolitan section of the Dallas Morning News. I will, of course, try to confirm the incident. I will be at the range in the morning after work.

B. Regarding the suicide, Mr. Stuart, your heart's in the right place, but what good will it do? Are you also implying that we should require a waiting period on rope (hangings), gasoline (carbon monoxide poisoning), and razor blades (slashed wrists)? Same song and dance--what about cars, matches, axes, yada, yada, yada? If someone wants to take his/her own life, and they are serious doing it, not just getting attention, they will find a way.

C. "What we should do is attempt to at least make it difficult for them to do away with themselves in a public place." Huh? What's the difference between committing suicide in private or public? Would you rather them commit suicide in private so they can sit there and rot for a few days? Maybe the authorities will find out about the suicide after someone reports a wretched stench. To be honest, I never enjoyed seeing suicides. But I hate seeing stinkers even more.

D. I don't know how much of a shooting enthusiast Mr. Stuart is, but he obviously doesn't realize the direction that gun legislation is sending us. HEY MR. STUART!!! EVER HEARD OF ENGLAND??? HOW ABOUT AUSTRALIA??? If he won't renew his membership with the NRA because he simply dislikes the president, he apparently isn't as serious about his Second Amendment rights as he claims, as far as I'm concerned.

OK. Now for you guys. What do you folks think?


[This message has been edited by Bulldog (edited July 05, 1999).]
 
This same scenario has taken place twice at a Denver area indoor range. A man was also convicted of endangering a child at this same range after shooting a minor child (I can't recall if it was his son or nephew) after renting a gun while intoxicated.
 
My comments...
1) Smells like a phoney to me...like you said, you have found no reports.
2) That guy is no gunowner nor a friend of the 2nd...he's a poser and calling for more laws.
3) As long as "she" had no prior contact with the law in relation to pyschiatric problems, any medical history of mental/emotional problems wouldn't show up on a check...so the reporter's solution is pure feel good BS....more evidence that he is a poser. If true, a law saying no one should ever ever be left alone would save more potential suicides than this clown's idea.
4) If true, I'm sorry that she was so distraught, but bottom line is that it was her choice.

I don't believe it, its another grabber trick


Also note that he effectively calls anyone who disagrees with him a looney....typical gun grabber arrogance. As well...when has Heston made idiotic statements? Stuart implies Heston is a nutcase...I can see bailing on the NRA because they compromise too much...they recruited Heston because he is a popular, respected and moderate. Another indication Stuart is lying thru his teeth

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"




[This message has been edited by DC (edited July 04, 1999).]
 
There have been a couple of suicides at Target Masters West, in Milpitas CA. Becuase of this they instituted the following policy:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To rent a firearm at our range, you must either have a friend with you or your own personal weapon. No
one that comes in alone will be permitted to rent a firearm unless you are known by the range master that is on duty.[/quote]
 
There was a similar incident about twenty years ago in Memphis. It was a man and he showed no signs of problems. The resulting lawsuits put the place out of business. That was twenty years ago when gun laws and attitudes were much more in our favor. I hate to think of what would happen today.
 
Tragic, if true. But ridiculous that people cry out for everyone to protect everyone from themself. What ever happened to personal responsibility?
 
Ewok- I also think this person is a phoney. My suggestion for the range, with all the rules would be the following...Anyone wishing to rent a gun must have an ORGAN DONOR card for ID. If they kill themselves, then there would be no charge for the rental or ammo.
 
About two years ago here in Mesa, Arizona a couple walked into Caswell's indoor shooting range, with their own pistols, rented a lane and commited suicide. It has happened before according to the Rangemaster. The local papers reported the story. It (like poop) happens.
A few weeks ago a couple commited suicide on the Loop 101 freeway (the DPS are ruling it a murder/suicide) by driving across a 46ft wide median into the path of an oncoming tractor-trailer. Both died instantly. You cannot prevent someone from commiting suicide if they do not want to be stopped.
It is already against the law in most states to commit, or to attempt to commit, suicide. These laws have not stopped any successful suicides that I am aware of. What will more laws do that existing have not?

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May your lead always hit center mass and your brass always land in your range bag.

~Blades~
 
These are the Range Rules for my Club.
The bold words are my doing ;)

Firearms brought into the Range, Must be unloaded.
People with carry permits are to declare carriage of weapons, to Range Officer prior to entering and departing the range
No persons under the Influence of alcohol or drugs allowed on the Range
Visitors are to produce valid picture I. D. ie Divers License, or Credit Card.
Visitors to the range who are under 17, Must be accompanied by an adult.
Eye and Ear Protection must be worn at all Times whilst on the range.
Do not remove Eye and Ear Protection, until you are outside both Exit Doors.
No smoking, Eating, or Drinking on the range.
Holsters may only be used by people wearing Holster Competency cards.
Only one person to shoot at any time in each bay. (Only 1 gun at any time).
Load and unload Weapons inside the shooting bay only, (Not behind the line).
Keep firearms always pointed down range, whilst loading, unloading and shooting.
Never pass your firearms from one person to another, always place the firearm on the bench and let them pick it up from there.
Prior to leaving the range, always press the Range Officer call system, and have the Range Officer clear your weapons.(Red light will come on).
If your weapon malfunctions, or you require the Range Officers assistance., press the Range Officer call system, and the Range Officer will be with you shortly.
Club guns must be used with our Ammo only, for insurance reasons.
You cannot take our brass from the range.
Under no circumstances are pregnant women allowed inside the range.
Enclosed footwear MUST be worn by all people on the range.
Shoot only at your own target, not at other peoples target, also do not shoot at any range signs, lights, or anything on the range floor.
All weapons bags/boxes are to be placed on the floor in front of you, not behind you against the wall.
Range Officers have total control of this range, and instructions MUST be obeyed, Failure to follow Range Officer instructions, will result in the person being removed from the premises. Remember these rules are for your safety as well as others.
Persons attending the Range, MUST be able to speak and understand English this is so that they are able to understand Range Officers, and Safety Instructions.
Exit the Range from the EXIT door only, Not the EMERGENCY EXIT door except in the event of an Emergency.
Place your old targets, and ammunition boxes, in the rubbish bin provided near the EXIT DOOR, thank you.
Please wash you hands when you leave the Range, to Remove any Lead Residues.
Mobile Phones are to be turned Off prior to entering the range.


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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/




[This message has been edited by HS (edited July 05, 1999).]
 
About half a year ago we had an incident here in Finland where a 30 year old woman rented a gun (Beretta 92) in an indoor range and after a while she killed three, wounded seriously a fourth and tried to kill, but did not hit the fifth before her hicap mag was empty. All the victims were men, and police suspects that something that has not been reported to the police has happened to that woman earlier, but she has totally refused to speak. After shooting she escaped and was caught by Airport Police some hours later in the Helsinki Airport when trying to get into a plane to England.

One of the victims was a range instructor, and I think that's why his behavior has not been criticized much in the local press. In that range they rented guns to anyone and let them shoot with no instructions or supervision. That lady was a first time shooter (and could not change the mag after emptying the gun) but instead of giving guidance to a first timer that instructor had just chatted with "old" customers.

The case has been in court, but the decision has not yet been made. The killer lady has had mental problems. She had tried to get a handgun permit (a permit is needed for all guns here), but that had been denied by the local police. So she just went to a commercial range, rented a gun and tried to kill everyone there.

And guess what? After that some politicians and journalists wrote that it is too easy to get a licence for handgun in Finland! One even suggested a ban a la England! That's crazy, since the permit system had worked and stopped her from purchasing an own gun, but then some stupid range owner rented her a gun without any supervision.

I am not for gun control, on the contrary, but people with serious mental problems should not be given guns. I must admit I don't know how to prevent that without restricting the rights of all the others.

Ossi from Finland
 
Women generally dont commit suicide by shooting themselves. Perhaps vanity or good sense or what?
And another thing, women generally dont commit suicide in a public place.
So I smell a spin.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Off topic:

Ossi I was intrigued to see you were from Finland. Being the nosey type I looked at your profile and discovered you'd been a member since January but had only 27 post.
How 'bout a thread discussing the gun "climate" in Finland. Polical, media preasures placed on gun owners, etc. We hear alot from Bruce, Rabbit Assasin and HS but very little from folks in other countries. Such a thread should enlighten us to the non-USA members among us. I'm sure I read post from those living in other countries but am unaware the fact they are not from here. It would be in all our best interest to keep abreast with what is happening to gun owners rights all over the world.

On topic:

The whole thing sounds difficult to believe in spite of the fact that it has and does occassionaly happen. I agree with DC that the person sounds like an anti using lies and BS to further demonize guns. Hopefully Bulldog will get the facts today when he visits the range in question.

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with the folks where this incident was supposed to have happened. They were very surprised to hear this and since this was the first that they'd heard about it, my belief is that this is probably some more Anti-gunner BS.
 
Don 3:16...

Could you do us a favor and get any contact info for the Richardson News...phone, address, website, etc?

I've never heard of an editorial about a news incident when that incident hasn't been published. Thus, I believe Mr. Stuart should be called to task and exposed if this is indeed BS.
Thanks

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
That poor sob is done for now. DC's on the case! If that reporter lied he can kiss his butt good-bye! "...called to task..." indeed! And Niagara Falls is damp! ;)

Careful now! Don't step in the Phil or slip in the Stuart! :D
 
I searched the websites and archives of the Dallas Morning News and the Arlington News...no mention of this incident and I went back 3 months.
Richardson News doesn't have a website, but I found this on it:

Richardson News

Email: richnews@compu.net
Internet URL: none

Local Statistics

County: Dallas
City Population: 81918
County Population: 1962971
Congressional District: 3, 26, 30
State Senate District: 8, 16
State Rep. District: 67, 102, 112

Contact Information

Richardson News
1000 Ave H E
Richardson, TX 75080

Phone: 817-695-0500
Fax: 817-695-0555

Personnel

Publisher:
Editor: Lois Wetzel Brown
Ad Director: Molly Swindell

Specifications

Publication Dates: Sun. & Thurs.
Col. Width: 2-1/16
Page Size: 10x21
Paid Circulation: 6872

Subscriptions

In-County: 36
Out-of-County: 84
*****************
I think I found his website, but not positive yet so I wrote an inocuous note ;)


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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Greetings, all. By accident, I found out about the lady killing herself at the indoor range near Dallas. It did happen; a friend's wife went to the funeral last saturday, July 3rd. I, too, saw nothing in my local paper even though I'm in the same general area nor was anything seen on television news, at least by me. It did happen. The deceased did not off herself on her first visit, however. She went and paid for one lesson and seemed "fine." To my knowledge, the lady had never been "committed" by herself or anyone else though she MAY have seen a psychiatrist. (On that part, I am not sure The lady's personal visits to her doctor would not be part of any public record that a range could get to and I'm told by friends that the woman was giving off no "signals."
What it amounts to is that she worked out a plan to learn how to use a gun and then committed suicide. A policeman was in the next booth and heard the shot (not unusual), but heard her body hit the floor. He tried CPR, but to no avail. She likely shot herself in the chest and this is common to female suicides. Anyway, the incident while sad is real. Best to all.
 
Many states have privacy laws concerning mental illness, and often it's not a matter of public record. Only incarceration in a mental institution is on any sort of record--and even that isn't NECESSARILY public info.

Shrinks have the doctor-patient relationship, just as other doctors, lawyers, etc...

For over 40 years to my personal knowledge, psychologists have been fairly unanimous in the opinion that somebody seriously bent on suicide will accomplish it. It may take several efforts. If stopped, and kept away from guns, they'll use other means. About the only exception is the wrist-cutter; many of these crippling, non-fatal efforts are attention-getting events, cries for help.

FWIW, Art
 
I understand that one of the big reasons for increased gun control in Canada was to "prevent" suicides. After the bans, the suicide rate from jumping off bridges went way up.

-boing
 
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