L1-B Visa and gun ownership

[dogtown tom]

Fishy story is fishy

Dufus An old school buddy opened a gun shop and did rather well.

One day, a Hispanic guy came in the shop and wanted to buy a firearm.

Frank (not his real name) was in a quandary as to what proof of citizenship he needed as the guy did not have a drivers license.

1. A drivers license isn't "proof of citizenship"
2. Citizenship has never been a requirement to purchase or possess firearms.
3. Frank (not his real name) is an idiot of the highest degree. If he was in such a quandary, he should have just read the instructions contained in the Form 4473.

He called the ATF to inquire as to what proof he needed. The agent told him what was acceptable, and Frank recorded the agents name etc. on the transaction.

Anyone taking verbal advice from an ATF (or any gov employee) is a fool. In all of my dealings with ATF over the last 10+ years they always make it a point to refer me to the actual federal law or ATF regulation. They don't give verbal opinions and those wouldn't be binding if they did.

A couple of weeks later, 5 agents appeared in his shop, pushed him against the wall and handcuffed him. They took all his records.

For what?
ATF enforcement agents investigate crimes. I've met one agent in ten years, but several Industry Operations Investigators (who do not carry guns or handcuffs) and conduct compliance inspections.

They sure as heck didn't know about the transaction with the Hispanic customer, because ATF isn't involved with the FBI background check.
They sure as heck didn't know about the gun the Hispanic customer bought because the dealer Frank (not his real name) keeps those records himself. ATF doesn't get them until Frank discontinues business.

Long story short, all the witnesses for the government were proven to perjure themselves. Even though Frank was proven innocent and all charges were dismissed, it cost him $37,000 and his business to prove his innocence.

Uh, huh.

I think Frank (not his real name) is pulling your leg.

 

[dogtown tom]

Skans So, the moral of the story is never sell anyone a firearm who does not have a valid instate drivers license or state issued ID?

It is completely legal to use an out of state photo ID and a combination other government issued documents to show the buyers state of residence.

Happens every day with active duty military and many others.

natman
Absolutely. From ATF Form 4473:

Question 18.a. Identification:
Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and age of the transferee/buyer. The transferee/buyer must provide a valid government- issued photo identification document to the transferor/seller that contains the transferee's/buyer's name, residence address, and date of birth. A driver's license or an identification card issued by a State in place of a license is acceptable.

Nothing unclear about it.

It would be if you included ALL the instructions to 18a and 18b.

 

[Dufus]

Deleted and I apologize for posting it.

I thought mentioning the penalties could be relevant.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Enough about that other Frank (not his real name)!

It's pointless to continue discussing the matter because, among other things:

1. We have little information and no documentation regarding the situation.
   
   
2. What information we have is not corroborated.
   
   
3. It was over 40 years ago.
   
   
4. Details matter, and we don't know all the details.

If there are any further posts on that other Frank (not his real name), the thread will at least be closed.