krist conversion 45colt ruger old army michigan lawfull?

Well, I have read that section before and just read it again. Basically it says it does not apply " to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated"

So, :

1) if you convert it to a cartridge revolver, are you not using it with "Modern Ammunition" ?

And 2) If you load the weapon in its original state, is it still a relic or curio?

I think that was the OLD reason they required registration if loaded.

I am not trying to be controversial here, but am unclear on the differences that are being indicated to me.
 
Black Powder pistol as of 2004 (5 yrs ago-still looking)

Black Powder and Antiques (as of May of 2004)
Sections 2 (MCL 28.422) and 9 (MCL 28.429) of Public Act 372 of 1927, the concealed weapons law, do not apply to antique firearms. MCL 28.432 now says that purchasing, owning, carrying, possessing, using, or transporting an antique firearm is not be subject to the licensure requirements under section 2 (purchase permits) or the requirements that a pistol be subject to a safety inspection conducted by the local police department under section 9.

The law now imports the definition of “antique firearm” from Section 231a of the Michigan Penal Code. Under that act, “antique firearm” is defined to mean (1) a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898; or (2) a firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
 
1) if you convert it to a cartridge revolver, are you not using it with "Modern Ammunition" ?
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Yes. Once it's converted it is no longer an antique and must be registered.

And 2) If you load the weapon in its original state, is it still a relic or curio?
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Yes, assuming you mean 'relic or curio' in the classic sense. Return it to it's original configuration and it no longer needs to be registered. One may have already done so when it was a cartridge firing gun, but once the cartridge capability is removed it doesn't NEED to be.

But I need to pick a nit here. A replica black powder gun is not a 'relic or curio' under the BATF definition. It's an 'antique'. They are not the same thing.
 
I've read it several dozen times since 1968. I feel I understand both it's meaning and the interpretation that BATFE puts on it. I have no idea what you're getting at, and cannot fathom why you won't say it out loud. Why are you being deliberately obscure?
 
konversion cylinder

thanx for all the opinions, butt,you know the rest,i know about the janet kukuk act, no need to register the antiques,and all i want to know is can i drop in a replacement part krist konverter,and shoot 45 schofield,which is not availible thru the ordinary chanels of trade, wallmart,mijer,dunahams,ect.and should conform to fed law guidlines.
 
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The regulation says nothing about whether the ammunition is available from a Wal-Mart. .45 Schofield is cartridge available from commercial suppliers. In Michigan, you must register a gun with a cylinder that uses that cartridge, in my opinion.
 
Andrewstorm, you need to call the Michigan State Police. There should be something analogous to a Firearms Department, possibly the same people who run the CCW program.

It's the same thing that you'd do if you had a question about federal gun law - you'd contact the ATF to get an opinion.

Then let us know what they tell you.
 
I wish it was as simple as calling MSP. What you'll get is the opinion of the officer you're talking to, rather than the state attorney general's opinion, or the county prosecutor's opinion, both of which are more important, and none of which may actually be based on the law. There is no case law on this subject.

For the third time - go to www.mcrgo.org. They have the best information of anyone I've talked with, and that includes MSP, the state attorney general's office and my local county prosecutor's office.
 
I think we are playing with fire when we promote or use conversion cylinders. Pretty soon they'll declare all blackpowder revolvers subject to cartridge pistol rules and registration due to the ease of conversion. Yeah, I know they were converting them 140 + years ago but BATF and Brady were not on the scene then but they are now!! Once they see a trend involving converted BP's they'll close the gate. Some front end loading rifles have already crossed this bridge because manufacturer offered both blackpowder AND centerfire barrels for the same frame ie Knight. :(
 
I'm not sure that I follow you, herb.
Don't use or promote legal conversion cylinders because if we do then they might be declared illegal so that we can't use them anyway?
Isn't that a lose, lose situation?
Better buy and use them while they're still legal and damn the torpedos! :)

"Damn the Torpedoes," a reply by Union Adm. David Glasgow Farragut to a warning of the dangerous proximity of submerged torpedoes (now called mines) at the critical juncture of the Battle of Mobile Bay (5 August 1864). As the Union fleet approached the harbor entrance, which was known to be nearly closed by mines, the monitor Tecumseh struck a mine and immediately sank. The following ships closed into a disordered group while heavy cross fire from the Confederate fleet and forts threatened them with early defeat. Farragut, in the flagship Hartford, took the lead, signaling the fleet to follow, and steamed safely through the mine fields into the harbor.

http://www.answers.com/topic/damn-the-torpedoes-album
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I'm saying if guys who are not supposed to have modern pistols (ie felons, dom. abuse, mental nuts) use the loop hole to arm up (ie buy a backpowder and order a cylinder) AND the BATF sees this trend then you could supply of cylinders cut off and every blackpowder that a conversion EXISTS FOR declared a firearm. In some states this would be a disaster as owners would be in registration/permit merry-go round. DO NOT say it couldn't happen. Like I pointed out some Knight and other brands are firearms because high power barrels are available. Never mind if you have the barrel or not. NEVER SAY NEVER when it comes to BATF. In Iowa several years ago a guy tried to kill his ex friend with BP, it misfired sir times, so he beat him to death with butt. GUESS WHAT? Next thing we are hearing from politicians is maybe BP should be reclasified. It died but they thought about it. :D
 
The guys who aren't supposed to have modern pistols in fact have easy and relatively inexpensive access to almost any modern handgun they want to buy on the streets of every major city in this country. They most certainly will not start 'arming up' with converted black powder revolvers when literally thousands of Glock semiautos are available for the asking. And the Feds know it. They're not stupid.
 
drop in conversions

stupid is as stupid does! and i think i really opened a can of worms with my hypothetical question,is it legal,to register,own carry use,a konverted black powder pistol,sometimes i think michiganders all snuck over from canada,the way they are brainwashed into thinking that gun registration,somehow stops crime.any criminal my stepdad ever arrested didnt have his gun registerd!:rolleyes:
 
Cowboy loads only

THATS WHAT THE AD SAYS,BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGES ARE NOT BY DEFINITION MODERN CARTRIDGES,I THINK THATS HOW THE ATF SEES IT,AND THATS WHY THIER RULING ON KONVERTERS AS DROP IN REPLACEMENT PARTS WAS FAVORABLE TO COWBOY ACTION SHOOTERS.:cool:
 
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