Kriss Sphinx SDP 9mm

mmmh those 2000s... Looks so very nice. I was to young to aquire them new... Perhaps if i find a used one @ a decent price. :D Riiiight.
 
Here's one on Gunbroker now:
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I had almost the same gun in 9mm -- the .40 version is much, much less common -- and the 9mm versions were going for around $600 - $800 about 6-7 years ago.

They are fine guns, but back then getting any parts -- which wasn't a common need -- could be a problem, as Switzerland tightly controls what can be exported. Magazines, for example, were "controlled" and couldn't be ordered from Sphinx. Other sparts, like the slide stop spring, were not a problem. Luckily, CZ factory mags worked beautifully in the AT2000 series... but some aftermarket mags for the CZ wouldn't fit in the grip frame.

Check back and see what the one in the link actually sells for -- being offered at that high price doesn't mean it will sell for that price.

Both of mine were the highly polished stainless frames like the one in the link, and that frame is almost as much trouble to keep nice as a blued gun-- as every tiny/minor scratch is very visible. (You can polish it out, of course, but you spend a lot of time polishing if you're not very careful.) The matte finish in one of the earlier responses is arguably more practical.

My became safe queens because I didn't want to mess them up! Until I just sold them. I like the black finish on the SDP.
 
Check back and see what the one in the link actually sells for -- being offered at that high price doesn't mean it will sell for that price.
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It's been bid up to $1725 and has met the reserve...

And like I said, the last two 2000 S versions I've seen on Gunbroker sold for nearly $3000.
 
I've seen the 3000 series guns go for those higher prices, but not the 2000's. Guess THAT market is accelerating.

(The 3000s are even more impressive.)
 
The used 2000 series are selling for big bucks. In fact, they are selling for darn near the same as a brand new 3000. Even that 40S&W Police Special is close to $2K already and the standard models go for a good deal more.

I actually much prefer the styling of the 2000 guns. Much more elegant, in my opinion.
 
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Worc said:
The Sphinx is somewhat of a cross between the CZ 75 and CZ P-07.
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I guess the reason I disagreed with your original comment, cited above, about the Sphix being a "cross" between the 75 and P-07, above, was that the "cross" you see is only skin deep. Not much P-07 in the Sphinx SDP.

Internally, almost nothing is similar. The frames, while looking similar are made quite differently (P-07 is one-piece polymer; Sphinx SDP two-piece:steel/steel, alloy/alloy, or alloy/poly -- but, notably, no poly/poly combo), have different barrel lug designs, different decocker/sear mechanisms, have different trigger bar designs (one-sided in the P-07, two sided in the SDP), and the P-07 mags won't work in the CZ-75B compacts (or the Sphinx), while the Sphinx mags will. The P-07 grip inserts are done differently, too, and don't allow the wider grip possible with the SDP -- just a longer one. I suspect these guns won't share the same holsters, as the P-07 seems to be thinner. Both guns apparently feel good in the hand, so they do have THAT in common. (I've only shot the SDP; I haven't been able to get hands on a P-07, yet.)

You often hear it said on this and other forums, that the CZ-75 is an improved Browning Hi-Power -- primarily. it seems, because they look a bit alike. But a quick exam shows those two guns share almost no common traits (except variants of the Browning short-recoil locked breech design, also found in the vast majority of modern centerfire semi-autos) beyond a basic "look."

The Sphinx does look a bit like the P-07, and both have the highly-regarded CZ ergonomics, but I can't find much else that the Sphinx SDP shares with the P-07 design -- but a LOT shared with the 75 (and 75B), hence my original response. The SDP is an "improved" 75B.

.
 
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TxFlyFish said:
What's the advantage of having a two piece frame?
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Well, the two-part frame may let you use a steel or alloy frame and rails, for extra rigidity and precision, while being able to have the option of using a lower cost grip, that is also flexible in ways that can moderate recoil.

Is it worth it? Hard to say, but it certainly makes for a more flexible weapon design.

(I can say that shooting an SDP with the polymer lower frame/grip installed, you don't really see or feel the difference. It seems like a steel/alloy weapon.)
 
Hmm while it's certainly unique but from mechanical standpoint it could theoretically be less rigid than the traditional single piece frame...any play in the grip could lead to feeding issues

But if it proves to be a non issue, it could mean less wasted material and machining steps ...two blocks of tight fitting billets vs a bigger one to accommodate the standard pistol shape. Maybe also less steps rounding out the trigger/upper frame area
 
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TxFlyFish said:
Hmm while it's certainly unique but from mechanical standpoint it could theoretically be less rigid than the traditional single piece frame...any play in the grip could lead to feeding issues
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That system is probably not much less rigid than a single-piece frame, as all of critical pieces are held in a stiff metal frame. The top of the mag is also held in that same framework. It may be more rigid than you realize.

I've never noticed any of my polymer guns having a feeding issue due to the polymer flex. Have you?
 
Walt Sherrill Wrote:
I guess the reason I disagreed with your original comment, cited above, about the Sphix being a "cross" between the 75 and P-07, above, was that the "cross" you see is only skin deep. Not much P-07 in the Sphinx SDP.
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That's fine and all but, you keep ignoring the key word I used which was "Somewhat". That would mean that it's not 100% the same as either the P-07 or 75. The barrel lock up designs are from the barrel hoods on the Sphinx SDP and P-07 where the 75 uses lugs. See this video that was linked already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0R4Ro3vdTQ

I aslo say "Somewhat" a cross between the P-07 and 75 because the Sphinx has it's own unique designs aspects that differ from both mentioned CZ models. The two piece lower frame, the rubber recoil buffer, rubber grip inserts, solid bobbed hammer, etc..

So, yes the Sphinx SDP is somewhat of a cross between the CZ P-07 and CZ 75. What percentage of each was never defined by myself and really less of concern for me. What matters more to me as future owner of the Sphinx SDP is the final result of how the similar and unique parts work together.
 
For anyone interested Redcon1 had two SDP SPHINX for sale for $895 at the Fayetteville convention center gun show. I bought one of them today. I believe they have one left.
 
the polymer frame is more rigid still...I have seen those screws work loose in rifles stocks and scope mounts. It wouldn't matter what the top frame is made out of. If the bottom frame is loose, it will rock most of the length of the magazine during recoil

Not convinced about the sphinx sdp...they push swiss made and billet frame. But when you take it down it's just a 75 in a 07 shape. They say machined from billet then make the frame a two piece mated by couple screws. The interchangeability factor is a minor advantage, but that just screams cost cutting. Shouldn't be in a pistol of this price
 
TxFlyFish said:
the polymer frame is more rigid still...I have seen those screws work loose in rifles stocks and scope mounts. It wouldn't matter what the top frame is made out of. If the bottom frame is loose, it will rock most of the length of the magazine during recoil
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I understand. I also understand that we're not talking about screws in rifle stocks or scope mounts. You're making assumptions that simply may not apply -- like assuming Sphinx's designers can't make a polymer component that stays tightly attached. You may be right, but...

TxFlyFish said:
Not convinced about the sphinx sdp...they push swiss made and billet frame. But when you take it down it's just a 75 in a 07 shape. They say machined from billet then make the frame a two piece mated by couple screws. The interchangeability factor is a minor advantage, but that just screams cost cutting. Shouldn't be in a pistol of this price
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I know you're not convinced. That's reasonable. Words alone shouldn't convince you. Hands on and long-term use will be the best way to determine whether these guns live up to their promise.

On the other hand, you're assuming that a design feature had cost-cutting as it's motive, and that may or may not be the case. It may be that a poly lower does save money, when configured with alloy/poly; but that combo may also allows for lower perceived recoil, useful in some applications. We simply don't know. It may be that they simply wanted poly where it would do the most good from a usability perspective, and nowhere else. Then it's not cost-cutting, but a design objective.

The real issue, I think, is whether the Sphinx SDP (or the full-sze versions) is worth the extra cost when compared to guns with similar functionality. Only those who try them and buy them will be able to answer that question. The CZ-P07 is one such gun, but so are a number of SIGs and H&Ks (as well as several Glocks and the Rugers SRs.)

I have a Gray Guns-tuned SIG P228, with the Reduced Reset Comprehensive Duty Package. It's a great basic gun with highly-regarded upgrades. Bruce Gray is considered perhaps the best SIG gunsmith in the country. That gun's price new, with the Gray Guns enhancements costs added, is several $hundred more than the Sphinx SDP. The Sphinx I'm shooting is on loan from Kriss. I'd trade the SIG evenly for the Sphinx, tomorrow, if I could. Others may prefer the GG SIG p-228. There's no accounting for taste.
 
Sphinx SDP mastered by Cajun Gun Works

i agree with Walt's assessment. I'm a certified armorer for several popular gun manufacturers and have had the opportunity to qualify, use, & carry these guns for professional use for 20 yrs. I must say that the best guns i've ever shot are the Sphinx SDP as well as the HKP7M13. Both guns are flawless engineering and bet your life reliable. i've had 42,000 rounds through the P7M13 no issues and 11,150 through my Cajun Gun works tuned Sphinx SDP. Proper cleaning, lubrication, and quality ammo is the key.
 
Worc said:
So, yes the Sphinx SDP is somewhat of a cross between the CZ P-07 and CZ 75. What percentage of each was never defined by myself and really less of concern for me. What matters more to me as future owner of the Sphinx SDP is the final result of how the similar and unique parts work together.
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The barrel lockup design used with the P-07 isn't really a CZ design; it was introduced by SIG in the 9mm version of the SIG P-220 used by the Swiss military in 1976. A later 9mm-only varuant called the P226 was then developed. I think all subsequent SIG P-series guns have used that same basic barrel design.

CZ first used the SIG barrel design you see in the P-07 in the earlier CZ-100 and CZ-97 -- same lockup method, and same open underlug. The SDP barrel, on the other hand, is very similar to the CZ-40B barrel which uses the SIG lockup on top, but the more traditional oval closed underlug. The SDP barrel copies the 40B design, not the P-07 design. They both copy a part of the SIG P-220.

I don't see the "cross" you see, but maybe there are other features I've missed...
 
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At the end of the day as much as we nitpick, it's still good to see manufacturers and importers working together to bring us new and refreshing products
 
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