Krav Maga

I

IanS

New member
I guess this is the martial art/street fighting technique taught to Israeli armed forces and military/police forces here in the U.S. (as their ads claim). I guess with all all this emphasis with firearms training, hand to hand combat may be even more important since our firarms or knife may not always be in reach. Just went through an introductory class and it was great. Their U.S. headquarters is here in L.A. and I'm joining their training program.

Anyone here actually trained in this relatively new martial art and how effective do you think it is? Regardless, it'll get me back in shape and throwing punches relieves stress in ways that my Glock can't.

[Edited by Ian11 on 03-23-2001 at 01:34 AM]
 
I think this belongs in Alternative Force, but I respond with my experiences (so I'm not "trained" in any sense of the word). In a AF/CQB thread, I was referred to Krav Maga as a martial art I should take. So after some online research, I checked out a school near my home over the weekend. There was no class when I got there, but an instructor talked with me personally for over an hour about Krav Maga and the cirriculum and I have to say I'm sold.

As far as I know, Krav Maga is not as much a Martial "Art" (forgive the wordplay, I realize art can have utility- just as swordmaking is an art) as it is pure Self Defense and Conditioning. They focus on making stuff work and unlike most martial arts, a big part of it is helping students build skills as quickly as possible (now I don't mean paying folks to give you a bunch of colored belts)... rather than climbing some skill stratification before you can learn anything useful. I take my first class next week and I'm really excited, I'll report back on how it turned out.
 
I guess with all this emphasis with firearms training, hand to hand combat may be even more important since our firearms or knife may not always be in reach.

This is why I study Krav Maga and attend their training center in West LA as well. In a very short time (3 months), I have seen my boxing skills improve dramatically and feel
much better about my self defense techniques.
 
Yep. Let's get this thread over in the experts' forum:

AF/CQC: Alternative Force/Close Quarters Combat
 
We had a 45 minute demo of it in my martial arts class. It seemed very no-nonsense, no frills, and effective. The instructor stated that it was built upon the body's natural reaction to threats (ie, being choked? you naturally grab your attacker's arms) and goes from there, rather than trying to re-program you to perform complex techniques. It seemed to follow the KISS principle nicely.

I never had a chance to learn more, but it seemed good.

Mike
 
I have a direct interest, and first hand knowledge of this subject. Krav Maga, is a great exercise in marketing. Krav Maga means Self Defence. It is "taught" to the Israeli forces, like any force teaches its troops. I run a fight school in Atlanta and Porto Allegre Brazil. We teach Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, and Kali. Not to mention, my partners brother is the owner of Taurus firearms. So you can imagine our programs...We have a serious interest in what works. Armed and un-armed. And we have the ability to give what works. Tried and tested in the real world. We teach to law enforcement. Which is an ever growing client base because they have discovered that there is a lot of hype in programs like that. Krav Maga is on the same level as the HORRIBLE SCARS system. That program is an outright joke. Those guys will not step up to prove their art, because "it is too deadly!" That is laughable. Krav Maga has been the same way. Cool name, cool symbols... What else do you need?


At any rate, the "people" from a couple different Krav Maga associations have approached us about teaching our stuff and calling it Krav Maga. They just wanted to re-name the stuff we teach. That's all. And the stuff that they are teaching in the associations, the one in LA being a major culprit, is hardly "effective". I was asked to evaluate the knife defense videos, and some of the other hand to hand videos, and they were absolutely horrible. they are not practicle. Nor, are they effective. There were so many movements that places you at an off balanced position. and so many movements that could only work in training, unless you have the timing of Bruce Lee. Right now, all they are teaching is re-packaged traditional martial arts. And some things that I think they made up. You try front kicking the knife out of an attackers hand. Never mind that he will cut you, even as an untrained thug. Imagine what would have if you tried to do that garbage to a guy who knows how to use a blade. I personally would remove the vascular system of your lower leg. Traditional arts are fine if you are interested in the science of the martial arts. But they are not practical in todays world.

They have a product to sell. Just stop and think about this. They claim that they can teach you to "master" Krav Maga in a few week long, and very expensive seminars. Is that even rational to think that would be effective? No, it is not. Kind of like a Wade Cook investment seminar, alot of hot air. And a ton of money.

If you want effective training, find a place that teaches something like Muay Thai, or kali. Kali is a very lethal weapons art, that is very effective. You will not find a better striking art than Muay Thai, and you will not find a better way to protect yourself on the ground than BJJ. Now, I do not say this out bias for my styles. I chose my styles because they are probably the most effective out there. I have been at this a while. The reason I say this is because these guys are selling alot of people a very false sense of security. And they are part of what makes the business of martial arts bad. They sell hype. Any of you in the Atlanta area, are more than welcome to come train with us at any time. Then you will see totally effective fight training.
 
ov1, What's UP! Didn't know you were over here as well...

BTW... ditto on the Kali/BJJ/Muay Thai combo. I know there are several people on the forum from Atlanta, you should check his place out. Sparring with someone that knows both Thai boxing and solid grappling/submission skills is a very humbling experience indeed...
 
KREPT!! This is way too cool!!!!
It is good to see you here! I hope that I can get some folks from here out to train! that would be great.

I see that you have been here a while... ;-)
Thanks for the recommendation!!

This has the capacity to be a good discussion!
 
?

I don't know anything about Krav Maga, but I've seen too many of these Combatives programs that were all hype & advertising to recommend any of them. Sorry, but that's just my experience.

Choke, where in Atlanta are you?

[Edited by Danger Dave on 03-23-2001 at 04:04 PM]
 
Danger Dave, you are right on the money, hype is it!!
I personally live in Smyrna. We have a school right next door to Cowboys Country Bar in Kennesaw. You an Atl boy Dave? You know you are going to have to come out if so!

Krept, small world. I still can't believe it! Cool!
 
Choke, I live in Dallas. I know exactly where Cowboy's is (the only time I went in, it was still called the Crystal Chandelier). What classes are offered in Kennesaw? Maybe I can drop by some time.

BTW, I've noticed a lot of UG'ers have started hanging out here, too. Skorzeny's the one that told me about http://www.mixedmartialarts.com.
 
Dave, you are on the OG too? That is cool!
We are doing straight sport BJJ and NHB every night bro! You need to come by and check it out. We literally touching walls with that place you used to know as the chanelier...Then you need to bring us (Ricardo) out for a seminar in your neck of the woods!!!
 
Well, I live in L.A., I am familiar with all the BJJ, Muay Thai, and all other serious NHB's competiton schools in the area. At the moment, L.A. is number one in the country for MMA training, I have met a lot of the big names (Bas Rutten, Tito Ortiz, ect.) and worked with a lot of big names in the business, especially the Pancrase guys. Last time I saw Bas he was with the head trainer (a former student of his) of the Krav Maga studio in West L.A.. Everyone seems to give a lot of respect to Krav Maga here. No one looked at it as fluff, and while I myself am not a practitioner, I am impressed with the names attached to this school.

Krav Maga is not a "one on one" sport like MT or BJJ, and appears to address the real issues you will deal with in a street fight rather than giving you a false sense of security one achieves from a "one on one" competition sport. I'm saying this having recently been attacked by 6 guys in a bad part of Hollywood. Despite the fact that I crippled the main attacker with a series of hard kicks, it did nothing to prevent me being jumped from behind. And while I succesfully arm barred another one of my attackers, it did nothing to prevent myself from being stomped in the chest. Preparing for a street fight IS NOT the same as preparing for the ring.

Good luck with your Krav Maga, you are in good hands.
 
Thanks for all your quick replies. I still plan to join despite some of the criticisms so far. Personally, I have no illusions that learning any discipline will guarantee my safety. My chances may go up but neither will it give me a false sense of security. I don't have that attitude with my firearms and neither will it apply to learning any discipline.

Simple fact is Krav Maga may get my lazy A$$ up from this computer and do some physical conditioning. Working out at a health club is boring.


*I still hope to see more posts concerning the validity of Krav Maga as a practical means of self defense.
 
Krav maga is suffering from a slight case of what friends of mine refer as 'Squeal Syndrome' -- the desire to be the 'in' thing, even if you're not.

I know of an instructor who has taught tournament Tae Kwon Do for as long as I've known him. Recently, though, he's losing money becuase the 'cool' martial skill to learn is one of the mixed/street ones: kajukenbo, jeet kune do, BJJ/muay thai and the like.

So, all of a sudden his Tae Kwon Do sign has come down, and a Krav Maga sign has gone up in it's place. He's still teaching tournament Tae Kwon Do, he's just calling it Krav Maga.

And because people think he's teaching a 'cool' martial skill, he's got full classes again.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this may happen quite frequently in the self-defense world.

As far as the skill of krav maga goes, the bona fide krav maga techniques that I've seen are very street orientated and very effective. Fellow peace officers that have krav maga backgrounds handle themselves very well in real-life street-level confrontations, unlike some other currently popular skills that I've seen. YMMV. Use the Internet and the martial skills community to make sure that you are actually being taught krav maga and learn.

LawDog
 
good lord ...

if there's one thing i've learned, most of experience is nowhere near an all-or-nothing enterprise, i.e. go out and experience all you can, so what. take a few of whatever classes you can afford, time/price-wise. take a few hits, dish out a few. it's all good. figure out what works for you and just keep your eyes/ears open. no ONE person/school has the 'answer.' anyone who tells you they have the ultimate in anything is trying to sell you something.

stay safe,

alex.
 
Hi everyone.

I realize this thread is very old, but I just discovered it and thought I should make a response.

I am a Krav Maga instructor in Los Angeles. I'm obviously biased, but I do consider it to be an extremely effective system of self defense, including its weapons techniques.

For the record, KM has never asked anyone to just use the name and teach their own stuff. We are a very open system, teaching by principles rather than specific techniques, but we do have a curriculum, and that curriculum and those principles are Krav Maga, nothing else.

There are certainly a number of imposters out there. Check our website at http://www.kravmaga.com to find out who has been certified and is legitimate.

Anyone with questions or skepticism about our techniques can post notes on our website, or email me (johnw@kravmaga.com) or come down to our training center. You can train as our guest and we'll answer any questions you have.

Regarding the bjj/muay thai/kali combination. I have immense respect for all three systems. I love to train with muay thai fighters and we do a lot of groundwork with bjj people. My only comment on COMBINING them is that each system has a slightly different thought process. The three do not integrate well without significant adjustments that can cause delays in a person's reaction on the street. This delay can be deadly. It is better to find a system that is fully integrated, where techniques in one area of the system are compatible with movements and techniques in another part. The thought process is the same throughout. For me, the answer to this was KM. It may be different for you, but I believe as a training principle the need for an integrated system is real. For years, military units have made the mistake of borrowing one area from this system, another area from that system, and they came away with training that was too much of a hode-podge. KM in Israel always sought to homogenize the system so that training time was quicker, and retention was longer without the need for retraining.
 
Lawdog is 100% on the money. Martial arts is one of the "trendiest" things in the world. Over the last 20 years or so, I've seen several styles come & go in terms of their popularity. One year, it's Kung Fu; then TaeKwonDo, then Japanese Karate, then the eclectic styles (e.g. American Karate), then traditional styles, then Aikido (thanks to Segal's movies), then the various grappling styles (BJJ, Jujitsu, etc.), and right now it's combatives. And you see the same people/schools teaching all of it! All of them promise the same things - "We'll make you unbeatable" or some such nonsense.

My point is, I guess, be very careful of what you buy into. I'd say 90% of what's taught out there isn't what it's purported to be (most people I know would say I'm being generous with that figure).

Like I've said before, most of these Combatives programs (Krav Maga, Scars, Line, etc.) are just abbreviated versions of other styles, with a few techniques from here or there thrown in the mix. And they're usually taught by someone with very little expertise in even one style (beware of experts in many systems - very few people master even one thing in their lifetime).

I'm not gonna say it's worthless, but be careful what you spend your time on - we don't have enough time in our short lives to waste it.
 
Thanks for the welcome.

One additional note: there is no technique in KM in which the defender kicks the knife out of the assailant's hand.

And yeah, there is a lot of crap out there. Naturally, we don't think we're part of it. But whether you like KM or not, I can guarantee one thing: in a very short time after learning a technique, you'll try it in realistic situations against real attacks, and you'll be able to decide for yourself. Looking forward to anyone's posts on the subject, or anything related!
 
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