Kodiak "Scout" - Again

Fubsy,

The deal is that when you are in trouble with a bear its usually at extremely close quarters and it happens FAST. The same thing applies with African hunting guides, who when a client wounds a large dangerous animal set aside the the big .375 and pick up the H&H double rifle in some massive caliber.
These doubles may look huge, but when you pick one up you realize its like a light and well balanced quail gun.
Unfortunately, I don't have any assistants to carry extra rifles for me so I want a really light and compact carbine that will do both jobs for my hunting here on Kodiak and the mainland.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
MD,

It sounds like you have the background to reach your own conclusions. I certainly won't disagree with your choices.

For me, its all about speed now. Not only my own experience, but in talking to others who have been hit by brown bears I've come away with one common thread. All of these things happen fast. The bear that pounds the ground and makes the big threat display is not going to attack you. Its the one lying in the alders that lets you walk past and then attacks is the dangerous one. And they are out there. I have to remind you too, that the local bears can top 1500 pounds. I want something along the order of 250 grains at high velocity. A hot .30 isn't going to do it.

I don't want an 8 pound rifle with a 26 inch barrel when the next brownie busts out of the brush at me. The rifle I was carrying last time was a Ruger #1, which is a pretty compact rifle. I ALMOST got the rifle up before I was hit. The rifle was only a 7X57 and probably would not have stopped it anyway. I'll have the right rifle next time.

The score this year in Alaska is two deaths and two badly mauled people. Only one of the bears was found.
Thats about average. The bears will calm down now because their bellies are full of salmon but come late fall there will be several more maulings as the pickings get lean and hunters hit the field.

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan



[This message has been edited by Keith Rogan (edited July 25, 1999).]
 
Keith, I know this sounds strange but...

...isn't it exhilerating to get to have such a delimma?

Someday I want to have it, too. Just have to figure out how to get out there.

Addressing PUSH-FEED:

Why not a Winchester lightweight?

How light could you get a Savage Safari, if you dropped it in a synthetic stock?

Other:
A Number One is pretty handy, as you mentioned. How about another one, in a serious caliber? I know they make them in a LOT of calibers. You could even bob the barrel to 18" for a bit more handiness. Carful milling could reduce the weight, as could changing the stock....

I, for one, loved your old idea for a BLR in .350. I went to the nearest gunshop with a .308 BLR and handled one, thereafter, and concluded that that would be one awesome rifle!



[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited July 26, 1999).]
 
Keith. Glad to see you found a rifle that may work for you. Saw some of the other suggestions, and while good, have a few setbacks.
Let's start with the .358 Win. Discontinued as a regular round, only available on a limited basis, and only in 200 grain bulleted loads. I think the same situation may apply to the .350 Rem Mag too. As to the .35 Whelan? I have only been able to find a limited amount of ammo at a gun show, and only in 200 gr. bullets. ( I found one box ox of .358's and 3 boxes of .35 Whelans at a gun show yesterday, all 200 grainers.) Our local gun shops don't have any at all, and for some silly reason are reluctant to order any. I have also heard rumors that Remington is discontinuing the .35 Whelan. That's no big deal if you reload and 06 brass is readily available.
There is a place in Pennsylvania, I think, that rebarrels rifles at a pretty reasonable price. I'd have to hunt for it. But you can probably find a good Mauser action for about $120-150, a Butler Creek or Ramline stock in the $90 to 120 range, and the cost of the barrel job in .say .35 Whelan. Make the barrel about 20 inches long, with the proper iron sights, and a scout scope and mount. Looking at the worst case scenario and you're looking at about $700-800 tops. Maybe a tad more, depending on how you get your components, and how fancy you want to get. I guess I'm a broken record when it comes to controlled feed and mauser actions. The Mauser was designed to be as foolproof as possible under the worst conditions. WAR! It was designed to be the most goof-proof rifle possible. Remember "Murphy's Law."
By the way, the rifle I suggested will probably run between 6 and 7 pounds. Probably closer to 6. I have an 06 set up with a Butler Creek stock and Bushnell 6X scope, 22 in. barrel that weighs exactly 7 pound. This is built up on a commercial FN Mauser, one of my favorites.
I'll try and locate that barrel place if you are interested in looking into it.
Paul B.
 
Paul and Long Path,

The problem is the same whether its a BLR or a Winchester light - rebarreling is expensive. Either of these rifle might do the trick (though I don't think the Winchester comes in a short action), but for $900 I can get the whole package fully assembled, barrel lapped, trued, etc, from the Remington custom shop.
I just can't pass that up...and its so damned pretty!
Check out the Remington Web site - don't have the URL handy. Go to custom shop and look at the Model 7 "MS". Its a damned fine looking piece of work.
One point about the push feed - I think part of the problem in jamming a bolt action when the excrement hits the oscillating device is that I think people tend to short stroke the action. I don't think thats likely with the short action on a model 7.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Long Path,

Exhilerating? You know, it really was. After it was over and we were up there on the mountain waiting (hoping) our friend below could make contact with someone and a helo would show up and pull us out of there, we were having a ball. That may sound strange, and its probably partly due to endorphins and adrenaline, but it was great. We smoked cigarettes and watched the whales down in the bay below us, the sky was blue - everything was crystal clear and perfect. A moment, hours, of perfect clarity.
I still don't fully understand all that. I thought my eye was gone, my blood was spattered for ten yards in every direction and I was lying in a pool of it. Still, it was good to be alive and all of that just wasn't very important at the time.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Who was it that Heston was quoting when he said "There is no feeling so exhilerating as to be shot at... and missed."

I want to say Churchhill, but it may have been Lawrence, or Kipling, or, no, not Hemingway.

You made it out through good instincts, the help of a good partner, and a leetle bit of luck. What could bring your spirits higher? I only wish you could have finished the sow off and kept the rug.

To paraphrase Cooper, who was probably paraphrasing another: When a man comes out of a fight the victor, he is proud.

BTW, I've got a guy reboring my Springfield for $230. Just a thought if that's a consideration on an existing lightweight.
 
Long Path, that quote was by Churchill. Concerning this bear country "scout" gun, why not a Marlin Guide Gun? Granted, the 45-70 doesn't have a flat trajectory to take game at 250 to 300 yards, but one could always get in a little closer, right?
 
LP,

The writer that comes to mind (for me) is Ray Bradbury. I think it was a little thing called Dandelion Wine where some event makes a youngster realze that he's ALIVE. He suddenly feels the blood coursing through through his veins, hears his heartbeat, lies on the grass and feels all the sensations.

I was in that mode, and still am to some extent. Life is good!

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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan



[This message has been edited by Keith Rogan (edited July 30, 1999).]
 
HM3,

I own a Marlin Guide Gun. Its really quite unsuitable in this country as a hunting rifle.
Kodiak is all grassy mountainsides, real hard to stalk up a hill that looks like a vertical golf course. Sitka Blacktails are mountain deer. They always seem to be watching you from a crest 350 yards straight up. When you get up on the crest, they're in a ravine 350 yards below you. I'm not sure how they do that.
The mainland where I hunt caribou is flatter but still quite open - picture a wet Wyoming.
The guide gun is for packing around down in the thick stuff along creeks when I'm fishing.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Keith,
I realize your need for a short barreled rifle, but how hard is it to buy say a ruger and have the barrel cut and recrowned? Would that not give you everything you'd need? Including controlled feeding and weather resistance.......or do not come in the calibers you need...........
Also a while back the controlled feed situation came up and my friend and favorite gunsmith explained to me that they have a conversion for the mdl700 to make it a claw extractor, is that available for the model 7, the only reason I dont have one is because of the claw extractor and id like one in 308.......so Ill chk into chopping the ruger if it cant be ordered the way I want it ......fubsy.
 
Fubsy,

I didn't know they could convert a 700 to controlled feed. I'm never really satisfied with a rifle, always tinkering with different loads, playing with the trigger, sights, etc.
If theres a way to convert a model 7 to controlled feed, then there will be a controlled feed model 7 in my future. I know the Remington extractor can be replaced by a Sako. The extractor is another weak point in the Remington.
Any info you can provide on this controlled feed conversion would be appreciated. I think the model 7 is merely a short model 700 action. I would think that anything you could do with the 700 would be possible with the short.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
The Model 7 has a fixed extractor, like the antiquated and (thankfully) out of production Remington 721.
The 722 and 700 can be converted to Sako style extractors.
This must be done very carefully. If too much material is removed during machining, the exractor tends to fall out, and/or bind up the bolt after firing.
 
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