Knoxville Paper Publishes Map of CCW!

R

RBK

New member
Yes folks, it's true, the liberal media in Knoxville, TN has posted an interactive map showing the addresses of those in my state who have a handgun carry permit.

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story...9&provider=top

These jerks say their posting is in the name of research.
I have posted repeatedly that I would post the names of all of their employees and family members along with addresses and, did they have a problem with me doing this?
They have blasted [read:deleted] my postings for several hours.

Well, what do you think on this?
 
Bluesman thanks for fixing it for me.
The map is interactive. You click on it, select from the dropdown menu, the county you are interested in and, the addresses appear as flags.

Once again, thanks for fixing it....
 
folks, I am asking hard questions of the people of WBIR in Knoxville. They are waffeling and clearing their throats.

Stay tuned.....
 
That is absolutely insane, I don't even know if the registered sex offenders info on the 'Net is that detailed with an interactive map. Even if it is are we being compared to those perverts?

If a private research group wants to research the demographics of CHL holders and see if there are any solid links to lower crime rate or any other statistics that'd be cool. But if it's just a public list of CHL holders that's going too far. But then again I don't think counties should post people's crime records with mugshots on the Internet.
 
This is an unintended consequence of CCW laws. Licenses are part of the public record, and available to anyone who wants the information. We all fought hard to get carry permits, when we should have been fighting for Vermont-style laws.
 
The map is interactive. You click on it, select from the dropdown menu, the county you are interested in and, the addresses appear as flags.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing any addresses. I see flags that tell you the number of permit holders, the population, income, etc. No flags, no addresses.

What am I missing?:confused:
 
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing any addresses. I see flags that tell you the number of permit holders, the population, income, etc. No flags, no addresses.

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing addresses either. Actually, I think the map and the stats they have going on that site is a very tasteful way to display that kind of information. Now, if you can show me where actual addresses are posted, then I'll change my opinion...
 
When you read the story link it does say you can search for your address. So, maybe they are saying if you know someones address then you can input that and find if they have a CCW....not sure, but that's the way it reads to me.

From the story:

Select your county from the drop-down menu, then search for your address.
Click to expand...

There is an area to input address. Anyone have a real Tenn. address to test?
 
Actually, since CCW involves your social security number, date of birth, and other info, it either is not nor should not be public record due to possibility of identity theft. That in addition to being an obvious attempt to bring adverse treatment of the individuals. In short, this can't be right.
 
When you read the story link it does say you can search for your address. So, maybe they are saying if you know someones address then you can input that and find if they have a CCW....not sure, but that's the way it reads to me.

From the story:
Select your county from the drop-down menu, then search for your address.
Click to expand...
There is an area to input address. Anyone have a real Tenn. address to test?
Click to expand...

I know a few people who live in TN and have permits. I entered their addresses and the location of their homes came up on the map. Heck, I entered my address in Ohio and my house came up on the map. That doesn't mean anything. Enter 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and it'll come up.

I'm not understanding the outrage here... :confused:
 
Actually, since CCW involves your social security number, date of birth, and other info, it either is not nor should not be public record due to possibility of identity theft. That in addition to being an obvious attempt to bring adverse treatment of the individuals. In short, this can't be right.
Click to expand...


From my interpretation of the article, there is nothing on public record. It is simply showing where the abundance of CCW holders are in that state.

I'm not seeing addresses either. Actually, I think the map and the stats they have going on that site is a very tasteful way to display that kind of information. Now, if you can show me where actual addresses are posted, then I'll change my opinion...
Click to expand...

That's what I'm thinking. Although the demographics are about pretty much what I suspected. No surprise to me there. The article also didn't seem to have any bias, neither with us or against us, it just said that it was a heated national topic.
 
Since the map doesn't work for me, my guess is if you enter your (Tennesse) address, it'll show you how many permits are issued in the general area... like your zip code or on your street.

I'd also like to offer some opinions on the How, Why article on the website.

In a general sense, folks are carrying guns everywhere in Tennessee.
Click to expand...

This is a good thing in that it doesn't limit the geographics of where a BG might encounter an armed citizen.

Summarizing by area, we saw rural areas have a significantly higher number of permits per capita than urban areas. Perhaps most interesting was the clear contrast between Tennessee's major cities and the suburbs around them.

Knoxville, Chattanooga, Nashville, and Memphis all show a striking pattern of a low permit rate within the city limits and much higher permit rates in the suburbs around them. The permit rates in the suburban areas were also generally higher than those in rural areas.

With that clear visual trend, we wondered what social trends lay beneath the surface.
Click to expand...

I'm not up on TN law, but it just may be that the urban police departments just aren't all that cooperative with the CCW process.

More likely however, is that those living in the suburbs have more disposable income than urbanites or rural residents. Folks living in suburbs may tend to be more white-collar than those living in or near the cities. Rural residents are more likely to be farmer/ranchers who are frequently not flush with spare cash.

More specifically, there was a moderate, positive correlation between the percentage of an area's population that was white and the number of permits, along with a moderate, negative correlation with the percentage of an area's population that was black. There was a moderate, positive correlation between the percentage of the population living in a family household and the number of permits. The correlations on income were negative or weak for incomes below $50,000. The correlation becomes postive and grows stronger until $100,000, where it trails off and becomes weak around $150,000. Correlations with education levels were, in short, all over the place. There was no clear pattern.
Click to expand...
Re: Racial issues - I perceive this as reflecting the number of black residents who (a) earn less than $50,000 per year and (b)have criminal histories which disqualify them.

That many are living in a family household is not surprising. Marriage, children and buying a house all often indicate responsible people. And now they have something worth protecting, they opt for a CCW permit once the money is available to them.

Economically, once people earn a certain amount of money per year, they can afford to acquire a firearm, take a training course and apply for the permit. It's a matter of prioritizing where your money goes and/or having the discretionary income to begin with. Around the $150K mark, my guess is that those people are interacting less with low-end wage earners and not travelling through the rougher parts of town. They may not even enter urban areas much at all.

A more interesting question might be the percentage of blacks who earn between $50-100K per year who have permits versus whites in the same category. It would be interesting only for statistics because fewer black families may seek the use of a firearm due to cultural differences or they just keep one in the home instead of carrying it.
 
Getting that from a list that was likely in Government Database Format to a flagged map took a good bit of work.

Someone there is an absolutely obsessed anti.
 
That doesn't mean anything. Enter 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and it'll come up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for testing. Well if it just shows any address location then I see no problem. If it had just listed CCW holders address then that would have been different.
 
So, obtain and make a flier/poster of the names and addresses of all the employees of the paper, include names of children and what schools they go to. Use only publicly available information, and then ask them if they want that spread all over town and the internet.
 
The following was posted by Jake Jost, who did the study and wrote the commentary referred to by the OP. Unfortunately, due to the database glitch, Mr. Jost will have to re-register (we lost a few new members yesterday). I just want to be sure that his words are preserved in the post as they are very relevant.

Mr. Jost - You have my apology for the loss of your membership info. Please re-register and join in our discussion again if you like.

-Dave

Jake Jost said:
Hi, folks.

I'm the analyst who did the study and wrote the commentary you're referencing. (Part of this is a cross-post from the High Road, where RBK apparently posted the same nonsense under the name BainX.)

Points to consider:

--Absolutely no names or addresses published.

--I appreciate BillCA, TheBluesMan, and VUPDBlue for being the voices of reason.

--BainX/RBK, presumably, is the same as "Alarmed," who posted on our message boards. He posted essentially the same thing on the High Road message boards. "Alarmed" thought it germane to make veiled threats to my family and the families of staff members.

--We're a television station, rather than a newspaper--the NBC affiliate in Knoxville, WBIR.

--Our study really didn't have any notions of demonstrating effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of Tennessee's permit program. We saw a spike in the number of local folks seeking the permit after a high-profile double murder in which the victims apparently did not know the perpetrators. We became interested in who, in the general and non-individual sense, was making use of the program. We analyzed the program for the purpose of seeing the geographic trend, then ran socioeconomic correlations with Census info. The question it raises, which I intend to try to answer, is whether the economic split we saw is a sign of inequality in the way the program is administered. Are the permit and training fees a barrier? Why aren't the folks who traditionally would most need the permits getting them?

--I'm a patient guy, slow to anger--part of the temperament I got from my old man. I'm not going to take the veiled threats made by a few reactionary buffoons as being indicative of all or even most gun owners and enthusiasts. On the other hand, it's not really a reasonable expectation that other news folks will respond similarly. My friendly advice: consider Alarmed and BainX/RBK (if they're not the same person, though they likely are) a case study in how not to respond to the press, if you'd like to be an effective advocate. Making vague threats is likely a pretty reliable way to turn an objective or on-the-fence journalist into an anti, as you like to call them. Somebody threatens you, you're likely to hold a grudge.

--Knowing as I do that gun owners and enthusiasts are a widely-varied group in terms of make-up, it's not a reasonable expectation for everybody else to be able to prevent one person from reacting reflexively and doing something foolish. All the same, it might be a worthwhile conversation for gun folks to have. You really don't want the village idiot to lead the parade. Some of your level-headed members have done a great job assuring others that we're not out to invade their privacy, and we do appreciate it.

--Yellowfin: TN's permit is actually a separate card from the driver's license. The data released by the state doesn't contain SSN, but it has names and addresses. Under Tennessee law, it's open record.

--ManedWolf: You're right in that it was a lot of work and I am obsessed, but not in regards to being an "obsessed anti." I'm a workaholic and a nerd, and I do tend to work obsessively once I dig into a project. But that's a product more of my psychological geography (if you'll pardon the pun) than it is of any particular political view.

--You can reach me at jjost@wbir.gannett.com if you'd like to ask any additional questions or make additional comments on our story and commentary. If you are interested in seeing any of the correlation tables, I'd be happy to share them. (Do note we will not be sharing any individually specific/identifiable information.)

Regards,
--Jake, wbir.com
Click to expand...
 
I believe something similar has happened elsewhere, maybe Virginia, but I'm completely guessing.

It was earlier this year where I think a paper made an online list of handgun owners of the city or state. I don't recall what the idiotic reasoning was, but I believe it was defeated. I wish I knew the details, but this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened.

Not only is it an invasion of privacy, which the govt already has done with making us register them, but it distributes privledged info that only the govt "needs".

So a theif, serial killer, raper, etc could easily decide what house would be the easiest.
 
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