KNIVES ARE DEADLY?

D

David

New member
Let's get a fun discussion on this one.

First, to set the tone, I am compelled to quote Freud once again, because it says so much about the g-g-g-gun f-f-f-fear c-c-crowd. "The fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual or emotional maturity"

In the case of some gun ban folks, perhaps both.

When I talk with LE, (and I talk to them ALOT) it appears their main concern is not with firearms, but with knives or improvised cutting or stabbing weapons.

The rare exception is an LEO that has political aspirations, and says whatever the political line of the day is. We ignore their opinions outright, as it should be.

The questions is, how come the gun fear crowd hasn't really jumped on knives yet?

I get foreign news on T.V., and I can't tell you how many times someone has been seriously injured, crippled or killed in, for instance, Japan. One guy killed his wife, three kids and then himself with a common kitchen knife?!?

I have one nut in my workplace that says he won't let his kids go to a house where there are guns. Hey, it's his kids, but, I asked him what about the knives, or, heaven forbid, common cleaning products under the sink.
I told him that cleaning products, drowning, and falls kill far more small kids than guns ever did.( yes, I told him nicely) As you and
the NRA have probably figured out, when someone has an emotional attachment to an issue, it takes an act of God to change their minds.

HOO YA!
 
Amazing, ain't it. I guess it's because knives are common, ubiquitious, everyday tools that people don't find them all that threatening.

Of course anyone who has a real understanding of CQB (like your LE friends)understands real well just how deadly knives are. Someone in a crowd who wants you will get you. Period. It's almost impossible to stop an annonymous surrepticious knife attack. Then there's the lowly ice pick. I've heard stories of people who were 'iced' without even really noticing, only to keel over an hour later from a leaking perforated heart.

Someone who really knows what they're doing with a knife is a truly formidable opponent.

Something to think about, eh? M2
 
I've been telling people for years that if guns are outlawed, knives need to be outlawed also. Just look at the OJ thing. I though that would lead to knive control. But then I realized that the fat cats in Sac. and DC would never outlaw knives, cuz if you outlaw knives, then only criminals could cut steak, and that is unacceptable.
 
David...

They have, look at your state's knife laws. Most state's have a limit on concealibility of fixed blades...3.5 inch blade length being the average, and there is and upper limit of a 5" blade for folders. Also most states prohibit the carry of "daggers, dirks or other double edged blades". In Calif and many other states it is illegal to wear a sword in public places. Also illegal are automatic knives over 1 inch blade length, balisongs, butterfly knives, gravity knives, throwing stars....the list goes on.
Further, schools have a zero tolerance of ANY type knife. The Swiss Army I always carried will get a kid expelled now.
And, interestingly enough, CCW states will not accomodate their knife laws for permit carriers.

So don't fool yourself.


------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Further..
There are Federal regs on autoknife transport across state lines. They are cracking down (meaning enforcing current laws on the books) on import of foreign made autoknives and "kits".
Several retailers (some Internet and mailorder) were arrested for selling autos.

Next time you are in England, see if you can find any advertizements and/or pictures for any knives other than kitchen cutlery in magazines and newspapers. And we all know the Libs love to point to England as a model of social enlightenment.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
You can't wear a sword in California? I was wondering why so many people were giving me funny looks in Glendale. Seriously, to each his own, but, if I saw anyone walking around with a sword, I would walk the other way.

DC, I wasn't fooling myself. I was just showing someone my 5" large tanto Cold Steel folder the other day(for cleaning my nails and opening the mail of course) and they were shocked that I could carry such a thing.

Speaking of kitchen knives, how about those
ceramic bladed, plastic handled jobs from Germany? I bet they show up real well when passing thru the metal detectors....

My older brother(Marine recon, 3 tours in 'Nam, yada,yada,yada) said that even if he had a machine gun, ready to fire, he'd hate to be stuck in an elevator with someone that knew how to use a knife.

Knives never run out of ammo don't you know...

[This message has been edited by DAVID (edited 12-01-98).]
 
I have been having a lot of fun lately since being in Utah... Making knives of different designs. I have six blade designs that have been quite popular, selling each before the knife is finished! My "Bison" design is the most popular - don't laugh, but it is a "Spear Point Cleaver" that is a hunters dream. (car door test? please... Bring me an M-3 Bradley to test it on!) A few minutes with a sheat of leather, and I can make a nice IWB rig to carry it. (no I haven't done it yet)
Even if I had such a knife rig under my shirt, and was faced with a Veteran Recon Marine with an M-60 machine gun - Loaded or not... I think I would tend to avoid provoking him!

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defence Institute
kodiac@hotbot.com
 
Good post Kodiac.

I think my brother was saying that even with a machine gun, a real knife fighter has a high probability of delivering a deadly cut to you even if you do manage to kill him.
 
Seeing this thread brought to mind a question -- what value is a knife to a novice? A novice, of reasonable sense and ability, can generally use a firearm to defend themselves if the need arises. Is the same true of a knife? Discussions of knives on these boards usually include the catch-phrase "good with..." or "well trained..." Well, to be truth-full, due to physical ability or simply disposition many of us are un-likely to become martial arts experts! What is the role of the defensive folder for those of us that have had a great deal more training slicing a sirloin than fending off an attacker? Is the knife an "experts only" weapon? Should a novice leave knives alone? If not, are there particular tactics a novice should observe in deploying the knife? Thanks for an interesting thread! Kurt
 
Hi,

First time posting here, been reading a lot though.

I have to say that I would rather face someone with a gun than a knife. A knife scares the "you know what" out of me. For those who are interested, Gunsite Training Center has some free intro's to their videos on there web site.

After looking at their "Tactical Edged Weapons" free intro video at....

http://www.gunsite.com/videos/edged-weapons1.htm

I hope I never have to deal with some nut with a knife that knows how to use it. It really opened up my eyes to what a knife can do. On the other hand, I learned some interesting things from the short intro's.

Anyway, I thought I would pass along the info. Came to this site from AR-15.com and so far I like what I have read and the different points of view that are freely expressed in the forums.

Jon...
 
knives are a more personal weapon than guns. the physcology of a knife fight and a gunfight is different in some reguards. gunfights are fought from a longer distance. almost always farther than 3-5 feet away. the situational need and will to kill is the same but the kill is more distant when it happens. the dead badguy is not right there on you with his liver impailed on your front sight and you covered in blood.



3-5 feet is a knifes range. this is where a sharp piece if steel can do terrible dammage to a person. this is where the situation changes from a shooting to a personal matter. here you need to look someone in the face and ram a sharp peice of steel into their belly and rip, then feel their blood cover your hand and see the life leave their eyes.

that their is why knives are feared somewhat more than guns. it is not just a death of an attacker. with a knife it becomes a deeper thing.
 
We all should be just as concerned with our right to carry knives as we are with our RKBA. For those of you who don't know, there's an organization called the American Knife and Tool Institute (AKTI) that I would highly recommend joining. This organization is attempting to emulate the NRA. The AKTI is currently having a membership drive and the results have so far been less than encouraging. Don't wait for "someone else" to protect your knive rights. Contact the AKTI toll free at (877) 752-8770.

NOTE: some of this text was lifted from an editorial by Steve Shackelford of Blade magazine. I'm sure he won't mind.
 
A number of years ago I saw figures attributed to the FBI crime numbers, but reported by the NRA (or perhaps another RKBA organization) that alleged that stabbings were 70% fatal, much more fatal than shootings.

The Tueller (sp?) test tends to indicate that an assailant with his knif in hand can close with and kill his victim well inside the normal reaction time + draw and shoot.

But to me the question is why would I want to engage in a knife fight. If I am aware of the attack as it takes place, I ought to be able to move to the oblique, side step, or pivot and turn to avoid the brunt of the attack as I draw and turn this into a "He brought a knife to a gun fight" scenario.

Now for all of you who are about to remind me that a typical draw is about 2.0 from concealment and the typical closure to lethal blow is 1.5 seconds or so, you are right.

But after the years I spent learning that the best block is to move out of the way of the attack, I can usually avoid the attacks first step (from the one step distance). During this avoidance I am drawing and continuing to move in order to put the assailant out of position, perhaps if the opportunity presents itself I might be able to be outside his knifeside elbow, and by controlling his elbow for .5 to .75 seconds I may be able to finish my draw and hopefully hammer his several times in the body at virtually contact range as I back pedal out of dodge.

It would seem to me to be an error to plan to confront an attacker who chose a knife with a knife. My Sabumnim told me that the best you could hope for in disarming a knife wielder was the you would be cut, "maybe not too bad, maybe not die"!

just my .02 worth.



------------------
Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!

Yours In Marksmanship

michael
 
carry and train with knives because as forest gump said"s__t happens"

of course you should try to shoot the gremlin but if things happen to quick, or you dont have a gun a knife may be the last option.
 
There is a saying " show me a man who is not afraid of a knife, and I will show you a man who has not been cut ".
Having been taught a few defensive moves to counter knives, my first move will be -- track shoes.
The Tueller drill, developed by Dennis Tueller ( spelling? ). I was first exposed to this drill in 1988 by John Farnam. Have since used it in all of my classes. All of my students view the vidio Surviving Edged Weapons. All participate in the drill both with rubber knife and plastic gun. All are timed.
Proper response can save your life -- but proper training is necessary. George
 
This is a drill in which the assailant starts with an edged weapon in hand at a short distance from the subject. I think the number I see most often is 21 feet. The subject is relaxed and the assailant attacks suddenly (on his own signal) the assailant usually can close and deliver a killing technique with the blade in under 2.0 seconds. I sometimes see 1.5 seconds in Mas' articles.

This is the drill as I understand it. Anyone else have a different understanding?



------------------
Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!

Yours In Marksmanship

michael
 
You know, for some reason I keep running into people that are afraid of my knife.

Go figure!
outscan3.jpg

Jim March
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top