Knife: Plain edge or serrated?

While we are on the subject of knives... What kind of steel do you prefer for knives?

154-CM
S30V
D2
ATS-34
AUS 8
440C

Benchmade typically uses the first 3 and they used to use a lot of ATS-34. One great thing about Benchmade is their Lifetime Sharpening Policy. You Send your knife and a check for $5, and they sharpen it back to original sharpness. :D
 
One great thing about Benchmade is their Lifetime Sharpening Policy. You Send your knife and a check for $5, and they sharpen it back to original sharpness.
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Spyderco has a similar policy.

But I can sharpen my plain-edge Spyderco in less time that it takes to pack it up, let alone drive to the post office and ship it.

And since I need to keep my kitchen knives sharp, sharpening my 3" Spyderco blade is hardly any extra work. Five or ten minutes while sitting in front of the TV and the Spyderco is sharp for the next month or two.
 
I have a Spyderco 1/2 and 1/2 that is about 6 months old and has retained a sharp edge on both portions, but I rarely use it.

So, in general, I would think it all depends on it's intended purpose and the amount of use it is likely to see.

For a "fighting blade" I would prolly choose a fixed straight edge.
 
You can do anything you need a knife to do with a non-serrated edge blade.
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I beg to differ here. If you use your knife for a lot of heavy cutting on things that will quickly take an edge off a plain edged knife, the serrated knife will at least allow you to get the day in. A serrated edge will also cut through some things, like rope, much quicker.

They definitely have their uses and if your someone that needs it, you understand their usefulness.

And most folks know that when a serrated edge degrades, it's hard to bring them back.
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I havent had this trouble. I sharpen both parts of the blades on my knives and it only takes a little bit of time to sharpen both. I use a Lansky sharpener, and it does a great job.

If you stay on top of them, both are easy to keep up. If you let them go to long, they both need more work.

But I can sharpen my plain-edge Spyderco in less time that it takes to pack it up, let alone drive to the post office and ship it.
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I agree. I never understood why people dont sharpen their own knives, especially with some of the tools out there these days that make it so easy.

If you keep up on them, its a 5 minute job, and you have a razors edge when your done.

For as much as I use my knives, I couldnt afford the postage. :)


I do notice a LOT of people, who actually have a knife on them, dont keep a sharp knife. (a dangerous thing too, I might add) Many just buy cheap ones and chuck them when they dull. Most I ask why they dont sharpen them say they dont know how or dont have time.

I also see a lot of the disposable blade folding razor knives these days, and I have one myself. They are handy, especially for cutting fabrics and things that quickly dull an edge, or for things you would rather not run your good knifes edge across. When dull, a flip of the lever and rotate the blade and your back in business.
 
stephen426 said:
A serrated blade can still rip through what your are trying to cut through better than a plain edge of the same sharpness. A dull knife won't cut.
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Then why did the knives that Ernest Emerson made for SEALs have plain edges, but the Benchmade version knives made for civilians have serrations?

Now granted, if my knife even smells dull, I can touch it up with rice paper a dab of paste. But I still have to pay a plumber, so in the end it evens out.

My point is that if anything is properly maintained, it works better than something left in dis-repair. And serrations work simply like a brass hammer works, and frankly, I don't like ripping material.

But as I've said, when you need a brass hammer, nothing else works. However, how many of us are working cowboys? My guess is that many of us own a .458 and never intend to visit Africa, we just enjoy stuff like that.

I would bring your attention to knife that Spyderco makes called a "Salt." In some areas and in some early boxes it goes by the name of "Pacific." It is made with a hydrogen process, and the steel is called H1. It never rusts. Repeat, the stuff does not rust. It's not like stainless steel which will rust under abuse, H1 doesn't rust.

One version comes in a bright yellow handle with a fully serrated blade. Clearly, it is marketed to divers who need a knife for cutting slippery wet things.

But again, the alloy is the same at the front of the knife just as it is at the back of the knife. If you're ripping--even on a seatbelt--then have your knife checked and serviced.

Most companies re-sharpen their products for free.
 
Tourist:

I'm sure that the Salt is a fine knife. I carry a Spyderco Delica. Last September I went surf casting for a couple weeks. Left one of my Delicas in my tackle box. I got it out last month. Washed out the sand. Spent 5 minutes with 600 grit sandpaper to take off a 2mm spot of rust. That was it.

I'm sure the Salt is more rust resistant, but regular Spyderco's are pretty good even when neglected.
 
I like plain blades. IMHO the most worthless blade it the partially serrated. It's like have two small knives both of which are too small to do what you want them to do.
 
The real issue here isn't even the configuration. The problem is the standard we use to define 'sharp.' That is the crux of my position on this debate.

Regretfully, the American standard for 'sharp' is very poor, and getting worse by the edges I seen on new knives. People don't know how to sharpen, and when they do they use very coarse stones, like Arkansas and Red India.

I'm not surprised that many of you stand firmly in support of serrations. In many ways, it is the only configuration you have seen in your life that impresses you.

May I suggest that you google a bit on Japanese waterstones and the edges they produce. When you have an average, over-the-counter pocketknife that actually cuts like a razor, the performance will astound you. When a seatbelt slices as easily as newsprint you'll wonder why no one has shown you this before.

I have seen several snippets, TV shows and uTube shorts on the performance of Japanese laminate blades, produced and sharpened with technology from the 13th century.

You can always tell a knife wound from the Yakuza. You cannot get a knife like that sharpened in the United States...
 
My take based on what I see around me.

People like serrated blades because they don't cut with their knives, they "saw" with their knives.

People "saw" with their knives because their knife blades are not sharp.

People's knife blades are not sharp because they don't keep them sharp.

People don't keep their knives sharp because they don't know how to.

People don't know how to keep their knives sharp because they THINK they know how so they don't ever learn.
 
The problem is the standard we use to define 'sharp.'
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Hey gang,
when the tourist talks about knives, best to listen! He knows of what he speaks.

For my two cents;
if youre carrying tactical it doesnt matter if its serrated, partially serrated or otherwise. Its all technique (training).
Ive been involved in hand to hand exercises pitting a 2 inch blade against a machete. The machete doesnt always win.
If you are carrying a knife for self defense keep in mind that youre opponent may also have a blade. hand to hand with knives is one of the most intense encounters you will ever experience.
If you are not properly trained its better you dont carry. its the same for knives as it is for guns.
I was trained hand to hand in the army 10 years ago. never had much practice when i got out, I dont carry a knife anymore. dont feel proficient.
If i cant take em out with a hollow point or two........
JMHO
tom
 
I agree with John. People don't know what sharp is, and don't know how to sharpen.
The jig-type sharpeners are all the rage, and people think you have to use them to get a knife sharp. They think hand sharpening is a "lost art."
You can get a very nice edge with an India or Arkansas stone, if you know how to sharpen. They are not very coarse. Waterstones are overkill for 90 % of knife users.
I also agree that carrying a knife for self defense will get you hurt or killed.
Serrated edges are great on bread knives.
 
I work as a sushi chef...so plain edges for me...

The knives we use at work have to be *extremely* sharp because or the delicate fishes and rolls that we have to slice.

That being said, unless I was going to cut something hard like wood, I'm sure a sharp plain edge will fare as well as a serrated edge.
 
KChen986 said:
I work as a sushi chef...so plain edges for me...
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You'd be amazed at how many sashimi knives are now used in restaurants that really don't focus on Asian cuisine. In fact, one of the projects I have planned for the next few weeks is to fully sharpen a white steel deba with a traditional chisel grind.

I did a white steel butakiri a few months ago and I was very impressed.

Most of the sashimi knives I service are the more modern stainless variety, however I still use Japanese waterstones to sharpen them.

During this project I am also going to try a stainless laminate gyuto with a V grind. I was pleasantly surprised on just how good a Hattori was a few weeks ago.

This is the reason I don't think serrations are of any true value. If I took a plain-jane white or blue steel knife and sharpened it to your standards, most people would be shocked on just how sharp knives can be.
 
The Tourist makes good points in his posts on this thread.
I'm a knife maker, and have been since 1980. Serrated edges are for people who who either don't know how to, or don't want to, sharpen a straight edge blade.
If I wanted a saw, I'd buy a saw. But, for a knife, non-serrated for me.

Martyn
 
Serrated edges are for people who who either don't know how to, or don't want to, sharpen a straight edge blade.
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I have to disagree here. I work in heavy construction. We have to deal with materials that will quickly take the edge off of pretty much anything, and I dont care how good or sharp you think your knife is.

The material itself is bad enough, but then you also have to add in that is usually covered and or embedded with mud dirt, and a host of other things. Serrated edges tend to allow you to get through the day, where a plain edge usually wont.

This is one reason may of us carry more than one and often use a throw away, or the disposable razor type knives (I just found serrated razors for mine last night as a matter of fact), which really pretty much suck except for specific uses.

My "working" knives serve at hard labor, and I'm a lot nicer to mine than most. I use them for what they were meant to be used, and dont pry, or try to use them as a screw driver, etc. I can pretty much guarantee, from what I've seen of most of the pics of knives posted, you probably would not let one of us have yours to cut something if you were working with us and were asked.

Serrations also allow you to get through things like hemp or nylon ropes more quickly than with a plain blade, and especially if you cut a lot of them. Serrations also offer more cutting area per inch of blade than a pain edge does.

I think a lot of this discussion will depend on what you do with and expect out of your knife. They are really just specific tools for a specific use, and like most anything that is a general or multipurpose use type thing, you usually dont get really good specific use out of them. A fancy chef knife is of no use to me in the field, just the same as my el cheapo Boker Kalashnikov auto would be of little use to my wife in the kitchen. Works good on deer sausage and smoked cheese at dinner time in the dirt though. :)
 
AK103K said:
I have to disagree here. I work in heavy construction.
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In a forum we speak in generalities. If I was going to spend a lot of time on a boat, I would sharpen myself the top of the line Myerchin. A sharp Buck 110 would be a good choice for a deer hunt or an extended motorcycle trip. If a client wanted to build a new kitchen, I'd make sure they had some Hattori's or something from Mr. Itou.

I use a 90 cent chisel to refurbish my waterstones.

However, the fact remains that I can take a white steel Japanese laminate and polish it so that it is dangerous to touch. I was wrapping a finished piece for a client, took my eyes off of the knife for a moment to answer a question she had, and sliced open my finger.

Now, the issue of "practical sharpness" is akin to the debate on "practical accuracy." You don't need a hand-built rail gun used in benchrest championships to hunt deer. Most of you will never need the over-polished edge I have on my jackknife--which I use to show potential clients my services.

I look at this in simple terms. I live in Wisconsin, and I drive a 4-wheel drive F-150. Short box, 17-inch tires, choppy ride, but excellent in heavy snow--like we had last week. If I moved to Arizona, I'd buy a car for comfort.

You may find a serrated knife practical (in your unique job), but the fact remains it is a poor second choice for the majority of people, it has no day-to-day value, it's a lousy substitute for proper edge care, and it makes horrible ugly cuts, which are more like chainsaw rips.

As a professional, I have sold two knives out of my pants pockets. In the final analysis, once demonstrated, a client would rather have a functional knife with a scratched handle than a new knife that doesn't cut at all.
 
In a forum we speak in generalities.
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True, but most of what your "speaking" of, isnt what 90%+ of what generally is spoke. You and a small few are far on one side and many more are farther on the other, some of us are more your side of middle. I'd be willing to bet that more knives are sharpened with a draw through sharpener than are ever done at the level your discussing.

However, the fact remains that I can take a white steel Japanese laminate and polish it so that it is dangerous to touch. I was wrapping a finished piece for a client, took my eyes off of the knife for a moment to answer a question she had, and sliced open my finger.
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I've basically dont the same with a couple of my pocket knives when I wasnt paying attention. A sharp knife is a sharp knife. Some just dont hurt as bad when they cut. :)

Now, the issue of "practical sharpness" is akin to the debate on "practical accuracy." You don't need a hand-built rail gun used in benchrest championships to hunt deer. Most of you will never need the over-polished edge I have on my jackknife--which I use to show potential clients my services.
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I polish (as best I can) my pocket knives, and actually all my knives, even the cheap ones. There is no such thing as to sharp a knife, just like there is not such thing as to accurate a gun.

You may find a serrated knife practical (in your unique job), but the fact remains it is a poor second choice for the majority of people, it has no day-to-day value, it's a lousy substitute for proper edge care, and it makes horrible ugly cuts, which are more like chainsaw rips.
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If your a knife snob, (and I admit, I'm a "minor" one) maybe this is true, but for the majority of people who actually use a knife for day to day living, I dont think it is. Some things also just need cut, it doesnt have to be pretty, and the stuff being cut doesnt know if it was with a $2 knife or a $200 knife.

As a professional, I have sold two knives out of my pants pockets. In the final analysis, once demonstrated, a client would rather have a functional knife with a scratched handle than a new knife that doesn't cut at all.
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As a professional, why would you sell him one that wouldnt? ;)
 
AK103K, I understand the thrust of your argument, however, American knives are simply not sharp. And all of those old stories about butchers being superior sharpeners is largely urban legend.

For the most part, the systems used to sharpen knives now weren't available to many people in recent history. As you say, there were "the few," however when it comes to Joe-Lunchbox and his pocketknife, he pretty much sharpened knives the way his grandfather showed him. In most cases, on the same stone. My Dad only had one stone.

Then along comes a gentleman named Ben Dale who is one of those professional sharpeners that freehands better than all of the rest of can do with a jig. He is so good, that he has too many clients.

To remedy the problem, he invents a sharpening fixture called "The Edge Pro." However, unlike guided systems that use diamonds which tear out hunks of steel, Mr. Dale introduces middle America to Japanese waterstones. And the lineage and procedures of this method go back in history before the hay-day of Japanese samurai swords in the 13th century.

The next phase is idiots like me. We decide to take this samurai procedure to 5 dollar jackknives. And that pretty much leads us to this debate.

At the present time, any working man can come up to me and get a sharpening done with stone, paste and glass for a few bucks. And as this procedure becomes common place, so do peoples' opinion about what is sharp.

Granted, during my first public years, the first question was usually, "Yes, it's pretty, but will it last?" But it is now also common to have Buck 110's go three years without a touch-up.

Now, back to the debate. Not everyone knows that things are changing. Better steels, affordable procedures. They sharpen like always, with coarse stones harkening back to the late 1880's, about the same time as the first cartridge guns.

And with this new rendition of an old idea, more and more guys working in the trades are toting working knives with the same edges used by the samurai. The condition of ripping with poorly designed blades and suspect serrations is unneeded.

We now have Wisconsin hunters boning deer with Japanese sashimi knives.
 
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