kiss the k frame 357's goodbye

Well, my L-frame experience is limited to an old M581. I've owned several K-frames over the years, but (foolishly) rid myself of all but 2; a 1970s vintage M19 and a 1950s vintage M&P (2 " barrel).

I carried the M19 (4" blued steel) on duty as a cop in the late 70s & early 80s. Fitted with genstag stocks and a Tyler T-Grip Adapter, using .38 Special "FBI loads" (+P 158 grain soft lead SWC HPs, for you youngsters out there), I felt pretty well armed. I was a member of my department's 4-man PPC team, using a modified M10 (6" Douglas tube and Bo Mar sight rib), and firing thousands of practice rounds annually through another K-frame led me to be pretty confident of my ability with my service arm, under stress.

The ability to use magnums, if necessary, was a plus, but I always thought the old FBI round was pretty effective "up close & personal."

Maybe the L-frame will do anything the K-frame would do, but the K-frame did all I ever asked of it. ;)
 
Incidentally, if the congregation will all go to their gun safes and pull out a J-magnum frame and a K-frame and direct their attention to the forcing cone area, they may notice something interesting. ;)

Sincerely,
Tamara
(Who will, in all likelihood, tote her ex-State Department 4" RB 19-5 tomorrow to commemorate the passing of an era...)
 
For the record, I think the S&W Model 19 snubnose is THE best looking handgun I've ever seen.
It's got a 'dangerous beauty' look to it.
That 'touch me, if you dare' & 'I could kill you with my looks alone' sort of profile. :D

I'd like to know what those 'eye' Rugers were, too.
Was one in .256 _______ ? :confused:
 
If you like the 2 1/2 inch 19, you may also like the 2 1/2 inch 686 7 shot. Its got a really tough "takin care of business" look to it also. It may hold up better than the k frame but it weighs more too.

Personally, I think this is a sales issue and not a strength issue with the K frames. First of all, most gun buyers buy a gun maybe shoot a box of ammo and throw it in a nightstand. Most shooters don't frequent these boards and don't shoot near enough rounds to wear out any gun. I doubt that S&W sees anywhere near enough warranty work to justify dropping the line or it would have been done years ago.

I'm sure there are a lot of folks here that shoot a lot more than I do. However, I shoot a lot more than alot of other folks. Admittedly my k frames see mostly 158 gr magnums and plus p 38s, but I will shoot 125 or 110 gr magnums when the price is right. These guns are fine. There are 47 years worth of K frame magnums, literally thousands of them floating around and in good working order. To believe even half of the internet crap you read about weak K frames is just irrational.

I think the reality here is that its not cost effective to maintain the machinery for two lines of medium framed guns, so one is being dropped. Pure cost/profit analysis and nothing more (nothing wrong with that either). It would just be nice if the company came out and said that, rather than implying that a gun they have represented and over the years has proven to be capable of 357 magnum use, is now somehow not up to the task.
 
FALshootist,

I think the reality here is that its not cost effective to maintain the machinery for two lines of medium framed guns, so one is being dropped.
Click to expand...

That theory might be true if they were discontinuing the K-frame entirely, but they're not. They're only discontinuing the K-frame in .357 Magnum. The .38 Special, .22 LR, .22 Mag and .17 HMR K-frames will remain in the catalog, apparently, so they will still have "two lines of medium framed guns."

To believe even half of the internet crap you read about weak K frames is just irrational.
Click to expand...

No more irrational than it is to think that the .38/.357 K-frames don't have forcing cones that are rather thin at the bevelled 6 o'clock area. :)
 
K frame

You people are whining about the K" Frame, what about us old codgers who are still crying in our beer about S&W dropping the .45acp 1917's, don't we deserve some sympathy too? ;)
Don
 
the .38/.357 K-frames don't have forcing cones that are rather thin at the bevelled 6 o'clock area.
Click to expand...
Well, h@lll - you gotta put the spindle somewheres... at least my daddy tole me. :eek: :p
 
BigG,

you gotta put the spindle somewheres
Click to expand...

Yup. Right below the crack. ;)

Seriously, though; while the problem isn't as prevalant as internet doomsayers paint it, it does occur. I hate to see the Magnum K's go, but they really haven't been huge sellers in the last few years anyway. Ah, well... I only need one more to complete my set (I have a 13, a 19, and a 65.) Maybe I'll track down a good used F-Comp for my 66 example. :)
 
Incidentally, if the congregation will all go to their gun safes and pull out a J-magnum frame and a K-frame and direct their attention to the forcing cone area, they may notice something interesting.
Click to expand...

Hiya Tamara ;)


I think you're talking about the cut in the bottom of the forcing cone that allows the ejection rod to clear it, correct?

In 1954, Bill Jordan of the Border Patrol was asked by Smith & Wesson to design the ultimate peace officer's sixgun. Big Bill looked at the Combat Masterpiece and said "Why not chamber it in .357 Magnum?"

The 4" Model 19 would be made in both bright blue and nickel and, as Jordan proposed, was definitely the perfect peace officer's sixgun. As new .357 ammunition arrived that ate forcing cones alive, the Model 19 would be given a bum rap. Jordan said just use it with .38 Special loads for practice and carry .357 loads for duty and there would be no problem. He, of course, was right.


It's sad to see the old K frame Magnums go. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

Scott
 
The L frame was invented due to the weaknesses of the K frame - that's just a simple fact.....Tha "Scandium" guns are an aluminum alloy with about 1/2% scandium [ talk about hype ] though they are a stronger alloy.
 
IMHO the best compromise for packing available in .357 is the "K" frame S&W, and the Ruger Security/Speed Six. Accurate, they hold six rounds, and they're controllable with modest practice.

Now they're both going out of production.

Glad I already have mine.
 
Last edited:
"Jordan said just use it with .38 Special loads for practice and carry .357 loads for duty and there would be no problem. He, of course, was right."

Except for the California Highway Patrol guys who got chewed up back in the '70s by a couple scumbags. Valid or not, one of the excuses they gave was not being able to hit anything with .357s after practicing exclusively with .38s.
 
"
Except for the California Highway Patrol guys who got chewed up back in the '70s by a couple scumbags. Valid or not, one of the excuses they gave was not being able to hit anything with .357s after practicing exclusively with .38s.
Click to expand...

MK11 what is that about?
Can you provide some more info friend?
Thx
 
The K frame 357 was originally designed for police use when it was the practice to use 38s for practice and carry 357s.The K frame then was ok with 90% 38 and 10% 357. I t was thought that the problem of not hitting [in that CA shootout] was due to practicing with the 38 and carrying the 357s. When police then started to practice and carry 357s it was found that the K frame couldn't handle it [it wasn't designed for it]. They then designed the L frame for full 357 use.
 
If you go back and read the accounts of that CHP shootout, you'll also find that reloads of revolvers from dump pouches were a factor too. None of the officers had speedloaders, speed strips, or 2 x 2 x 2 pouches.

Poor training and lowball equipment was also a factor.

You ever try dumping six rounds into your mitt in the middle of a $#%&-storm?
 
The lightly used model 65-5 I just bought instantly became my very favorite revolver... ahead of my 2.5" 66 and 6" 686 (both of mid-80's production). Not that the 66 and 686 aren't awesome guns, just that the size, balance, feel, and shootability of the 3" 65 is fantastic... just perfect I'd say. So I'll stick with heaver bullets and possibly load down to between .38 +P and mild .357 power to go easy on the old girl... she's worth it. I have no need to be shooting the hottest .357 ammo out there anyway... mild .357 loads are quite adequate and more comfortable to shoot. I'm glad I've got the 66 and the 65 now that I hear they'll be gone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top