Just to let you know, this is off subject and is about race. I am not a racist and I hope this dosn't turn into a internet racewar. I am realy in to this site when I came across a post on race and was determined to post something about it. But since the thread was closed, I decided to start one up. I wont preach but I will explain my situation. First I will say that I am a 20 year old black male that is a legal owner of firearms. With that aside, alot of minorities are forced to live in intercity area because of a lack of money. As children, some of us are exposed to racism, violence, drugs, guns and gangs. All people are molded around their soroundings and tend to act, dress, and talk like others(it is a style thing and not a gang thing) and as we grow up, some people find that they can't escape reality and find themself joining gangs to survive the rough area. If you don't, you will be attacked evantually. As a black teen, people tend to thing I am a "gangsta" (I am not in a gang)just because I talk and dress like the average black teen. They don't see that I am in the army reserves, did good in school, and work for a living. They see a "gangsta". Because of it, I get pulled over by the police alot, followed when I am at the store, and descriminated, not allways by a racist person, but by people who just don't understand. From what I have seen upfront, I would say alot of people would love to get away from that lifestyle but was born trapped into it. Well thats all I have to say for know, let me know where you stand on this issue.
KINDA OFF SUBJECT BUT...
- Thread starter 4006
- Start date
Sad but true, we tend to judge a book by it's cover and wether good or bad we tend to judge people the same way. I'ld like to think I give a person the benefit of the doubt, but one can not be too cautious in this day and age. Unless they prove otherwise I will always be wary of anyone that dresses the part of "gangsta" be they black, white or any color until they prove otherwise. I'ld consider my self a cautious man rather than a racist.
Just my .02
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Rick
Just my .02
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Rick
4006,
Greetings, and welcome to the real world. The only way a cop or anyone else can discern, whether you are a harmless "good guy" or look "suspicious" or are a "gangsta", is the way you dress. I have been to Wendy's dressed in a suit and they were all over me trying that extra hard to please me. But if I go down in my sweats I am just another guy.
Ask around, most cops will tell you that they ARE looking for people with a certain appearance. You dont have to be Black to be targeted, you can be any color.
It is all about appearance, think about it, if you had a young wife and a 6 month old daughter, and went out to eat, would you be more cautious near a bunch of young guys with shaved heads and Swastikas tattooed on their arms or would you be more cautious near a bunch of young men, clean cut and wearing business suits?
You see where I am going with this....
I am not white and I am not even American, so I am particularly careful of how I dress. Different surroundings and ocassions need diiferent attire.
Its no longer about freedom to choose what you want to wear or how you want to look. Its about fitting in a particular segment and how mainstream society perceives you.
Regards,
Anand.
Greetings, and welcome to the real world. The only way a cop or anyone else can discern, whether you are a harmless "good guy" or look "suspicious" or are a "gangsta", is the way you dress. I have been to Wendy's dressed in a suit and they were all over me trying that extra hard to please me. But if I go down in my sweats I am just another guy.
Ask around, most cops will tell you that they ARE looking for people with a certain appearance. You dont have to be Black to be targeted, you can be any color.
It is all about appearance, think about it, if you had a young wife and a 6 month old daughter, and went out to eat, would you be more cautious near a bunch of young guys with shaved heads and Swastikas tattooed on their arms or would you be more cautious near a bunch of young men, clean cut and wearing business suits?
You see where I am going with this....
I am not white and I am not even American, so I am particularly careful of how I dress. Different surroundings and ocassions need diiferent attire.
Its no longer about freedom to choose what you want to wear or how you want to look. Its about fitting in a particular segment and how mainstream society perceives you.
Regards,
Anand.
I think we have to look at some things here, that in my opinion may need changing. This concerns not only blacks, but Hispanics and other minorities as well.
Look at how Hollywood portrays them. Either thay are super ultra violent, literally killing everyone in sight, or they are so stupid that their survival is in question. (Some of the sit-coms on the boob tube. If anyone in the entertainment industry reads this, be advised, I don't watch your crap.)
Some of the very violent rap stars further degrade the image of hard working black people.
People far away from the inner city see these portrayals of minorities, particularly blacks and Hispanics, and then see some kid in his "gangsta" threads. What goes through his mind? Is this kid gonna blow me away?
You cannot really blame a person, brainwashed by the tube, for feeling as he does. I live in a city with a very large Hispanic population, that is only 53 miles from the Mexican Border. We have our gang activity, some of which has leaked into my neightborhood. I can show you a house just down the street from me that was shots up, with over 50 bullet holes in it. The kid there, would stand on the sidewalk and point what looked like a .25 caliber pistol at people as they drove by. This is in what was considered a quiet neighborhood.
So if some kid walks by, or a group of kids, wearing their "gangsta" clothes, please excuse me if I look at them with a touch of paranoia.
But put the blame where it belongs. Poor people in damn poor surroundings, lack of real job opportunities, violent portrayal of these minorities, violent rap music,and the frustration of these people who want to pull themselves out of the gutter they are forced to live in.
JMHO.
Paul B.
Look at how Hollywood portrays them. Either thay are super ultra violent, literally killing everyone in sight, or they are so stupid that their survival is in question. (Some of the sit-coms on the boob tube. If anyone in the entertainment industry reads this, be advised, I don't watch your crap.)
Some of the very violent rap stars further degrade the image of hard working black people.
People far away from the inner city see these portrayals of minorities, particularly blacks and Hispanics, and then see some kid in his "gangsta" threads. What goes through his mind? Is this kid gonna blow me away?
You cannot really blame a person, brainwashed by the tube, for feeling as he does. I live in a city with a very large Hispanic population, that is only 53 miles from the Mexican Border. We have our gang activity, some of which has leaked into my neightborhood. I can show you a house just down the street from me that was shots up, with over 50 bullet holes in it. The kid there, would stand on the sidewalk and point what looked like a .25 caliber pistol at people as they drove by. This is in what was considered a quiet neighborhood.
So if some kid walks by, or a group of kids, wearing their "gangsta" clothes, please excuse me if I look at them with a touch of paranoia.
But put the blame where it belongs. Poor people in damn poor surroundings, lack of real job opportunities, violent portrayal of these minorities, violent rap music,and the frustration of these people who want to pull themselves out of the gutter they are forced to live in.
JMHO.
Paul B.
Gunslinger
Moderator
Hi 4006 and welcome to TFL. You are correct in that the subject is off topic, particularly in the Handguns & Pistolcraft forum. The more strict enforcement of TFL policies of late has also "encouraged" members to take any non-firearms related, "off topic" threads to Mike Irwin's newly formed dicsussion board the Range House located at http://disc.server.com/Indices/129537.html . However, be aware that heretofore TFL has strongly discouraged discussions of racism as well as other controversial topics that do not directly relate to the RKBA. The focus here is on firearms and promoting there responsible ownership. I suspect that Mike's site will be no different but that would be an issue for him to address, complete with the headaches that come with making those decisions. 
None of this is to suggest that racism is not an important issue that will, unfortunately, probably remain with us as a society for many years to come. Simply that this is not the best arena in which to discuss it.
Instead stick around and enjoy the camaraderie and our shared interest in our love of firearms and our right to keep them. I think you will be pleased with the complete lack of racism you will find in the TFL family. As long as you are a firearms enthusiast we could not care less what color you are or how you dress.
Please don't take the above as a criticism and again welcome aboard. I look forward to you contributions.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
None of this is to suggest that racism is not an important issue that will, unfortunately, probably remain with us as a society for many years to come. Simply that this is not the best arena in which to discuss it.
Instead stick around and enjoy the camaraderie and our shared interest in our love of firearms and our right to keep them. I think you will be pleased with the complete lack of racism you will find in the TFL family. As long as you are a firearms enthusiast we could not care less what color you are or how you dress.
Please don't take the above as a criticism and again welcome aboard. I look forward to you contributions.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
4006: Like your handle name. Do you own one? For a discussion of the 4006, come join other S&W owners at a forum that I co-moderate on the Smith & Wesson Firearms Enthusiast's Web Board, which is no way affiliated with the Smith & Wesson Company of Springfeild, MA.
FUD
Share what you know & learn what you don't
[This message has been edited by FUD (edited September 28, 2000).]
FUD
[This message has been edited by FUD (edited September 28, 2000).]
Welcome 4006,
I hope you will share more insights on self-defense firearms and how they relate to the issues you've described. I agree that too many in society "judge the book by its cover" without looking at qualities that may not be apparent on the surface. Hopefully, we as gun owners can concentrate on the things we have in common, rather than on our differences.
On the other hand, many here at TFL are interested in living inconspicuously, and otherwise avoiding rather than inviting trouble. Whenever possible.
I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Regards,
Ledbetter
I hope you will share more insights on self-defense firearms and how they relate to the issues you've described. I agree that too many in society "judge the book by its cover" without looking at qualities that may not be apparent on the surface. Hopefully, we as gun owners can concentrate on the things we have in common, rather than on our differences.
On the other hand, many here at TFL are interested in living inconspicuously, and otherwise avoiding rather than inviting trouble. Whenever possible.
I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Regards,
Ledbetter
If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck. It's probably a duck. If all people know about you is that you dress like a gang member and talk like a gang member, then they'll assume that you ARE a gang member. I wonder why "cool lookin' PhD" doesn't pop into their heads.
If I wear "Legalize-It" t-shirts, have dreads, and have a generally sleepy, half-open eyelid look about me, people are going to assume I do drugs instead of being a Libertarian, with questionable fashion sense and a bizarre sleeping schedule.
If you are comfortable with how you look and how you talk, then so be it, but realize that you are voluntarily taking on the guise of a group of people that is not welcome. The one thing that puts people off about gangsta types more than their goofy looks and poor language skills is the fact that they're loud and ignorant. Loud and ignorant is not a "style thing."
If I wear "Legalize-It" t-shirts, have dreads, and have a generally sleepy, half-open eyelid look about me, people are going to assume I do drugs instead of being a Libertarian, with questionable fashion sense and a bizarre sleeping schedule.
If you are comfortable with how you look and how you talk, then so be it, but realize that you are voluntarily taking on the guise of a group of people that is not welcome. The one thing that puts people off about gangsta types more than their goofy looks and poor language skills is the fact that they're loud and ignorant. Loud and ignorant is not a "style thing."
First of all, welcome to The Firing Line. I just gave my 4006 to my son as a present and for his own welfare - he recently moved to a slightly less secure neighborhood.
This is a good and valid topic, but not for the handgun forum. I'm going to try to move it to the General Discussion forum, but I haven't had much luck doing that recently, we'll see what happens. See you either over there or back here if it doesn't work....
[Meanwhile - a few minutes and a lot of expletives later.]
As I predicted, it didn't make the trip successfully. Carry on, but in the future any topics such as this should start in the General Discussion forum.
[This message has been edited by Mal H (edited September 28, 2000).]
This is a good and valid topic, but not for the handgun forum. I'm going to try to move it to the General Discussion forum, but I haven't had much luck doing that recently, we'll see what happens. See you either over there or back here if it doesn't work....
[Meanwhile - a few minutes and a lot of expletives later.]
As I predicted, it didn't make the trip successfully. Carry on, but in the future any topics such as this should start in the General Discussion forum.
[This message has been edited by Mal H (edited September 28, 2000).]
4006,
I don't know how many "Decatur's" there are, but if it's the one in GA, let me know. I'm trying to meet some new Georgia TFL shooters. I think some of the more RECENT ones I've met were Lightsped, & Kamakaze. I have to concure with what was mentioned above. Lots of guys where I live keep one leg of their sweatpants hiked up, and their hat on crooked, and wonder why they're stopped. Presentation is VERY important to the image you want to project.
anyways welcome to TFL and let us know if you're interested in a group TFL shoot.
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
http://ben.gunsnet.net
Different, just like everyone else. (Ben Original)
I don't know how many "Decatur's" there are, but if it's the one in GA, let me know. I'm trying to meet some new Georgia TFL shooters. I think some of the more RECENT ones I've met were Lightsped, & Kamakaze. I have to concure with what was mentioned above. Lots of guys where I live keep one leg of their sweatpants hiked up, and their hat on crooked, and wonder why they're stopped. Presentation is VERY important to the image you want to project.
anyways welcome to TFL and let us know if you're interested in a group TFL shoot.
Ben
------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
http://ben.gunsnet.net
Different, just like everyone else. (Ben Original)
I can understand you to a point, but have a hard time understanding why you would dress like a gangster if you were not a gangster.
You are judged on your looks whether any of us like it or not, so if you want to be portrayed as a gangster keep dressing like one, just dont be suprised when people look at you in a negative light and trouble finds its way to you more times than not.
I also would like to add that I have had a few friends over the years that grew up in a rather bad part of Chelsea MA where in the early 90s was litterally running crazy with gansters on every corner you looked at, I was taking the bus home from work one day and what apeared to be a 14-15 year old kid with his mother dropped what appeared to be a .38 special out of his waiste band and it bounced five feet away from him, he looked at his mother and grinned, picked it up and went on with his business. Anyway, my friends that I knew from this city did not get stuck in the hype there, they got loans, went to school, got a degree and are doing fine now living in a much more desireable city. I do beleive its harder for minoritys in the inner citys but their is also a ton of options and opportunitys their for you if you are willing to grasp it, I am saying this because I have seen it happen and I have seen people climb out and not give into the day in day out BS, you need to get up and do it.
I am not preaching to anyone, I have seen this happen, I have also had people in the same group growing up fall to heroin in little over a few years from their starting point two passed away from it and the others I have no idea about, these were childhood buddys that I lost touch with after high school.
Some chose one road and some chose the other, there is choices out there.
~Jason
You are judged on your looks whether any of us like it or not, so if you want to be portrayed as a gangster keep dressing like one, just dont be suprised when people look at you in a negative light and trouble finds its way to you more times than not.
I also would like to add that I have had a few friends over the years that grew up in a rather bad part of Chelsea MA where in the early 90s was litterally running crazy with gansters on every corner you looked at, I was taking the bus home from work one day and what apeared to be a 14-15 year old kid with his mother dropped what appeared to be a .38 special out of his waiste band and it bounced five feet away from him, he looked at his mother and grinned, picked it up and went on with his business. Anyway, my friends that I knew from this city did not get stuck in the hype there, they got loans, went to school, got a degree and are doing fine now living in a much more desireable city. I do beleive its harder for minoritys in the inner citys but their is also a ton of options and opportunitys their for you if you are willing to grasp it, I am saying this because I have seen it happen and I have seen people climb out and not give into the day in day out BS, you need to get up and do it.
I am not preaching to anyone, I have seen this happen, I have also had people in the same group growing up fall to heroin in little over a few years from their starting point two passed away from it and the others I have no idea about, these were childhood buddys that I lost touch with after high school.
Some chose one road and some chose the other, there is choices out there.
~Jason
If you dress like a gangsta and talk like a gangsta, then you will be treated like one.
Ya know what I'm sayin?
You should try and distance yourself as far as possible from the gangsta steretype. Dress differently and lose the stupid "you know what I'm sayin" crap.
Then you might get some respect. It works for Alan Keyes...
[This message has been edited by dvc (edited September 28, 2000).]
Ya know what I'm sayin?
You should try and distance yourself as far as possible from the gangsta steretype. Dress differently and lose the stupid "you know what I'm sayin" crap.
Then you might get some respect. It works for Alan Keyes...
[This message has been edited by dvc (edited September 28, 2000).]
Hi everyone, thanks for posting. Yes I own several guns, and my 4006 is my best one. I also own a glock 17, a berreta 92fs, a sigma(mine nevers jams up and has proven to be a fine pistol), and have considered a g3 rifle. To those that ask about dressing like a gangster, I dont really dress like one(normally I wear a t-shirt and jeans) people just look at us in this town and assume that we all are. To be honest with you all, the days of gangmembers wearing certain clothes and colors are gone. Todays gangmembers wear any color and will wear anything especially high priced clothes, but alot of us do. I do get pulled over alot because I drive a 89 regal(this is what I can afford)that alot of gang members like to have. Mal H, you are right, I am through with this post and look fowards to posting regularly.
yeah right
Inactive
Oh stop your crying! I've paid a fortune in taxes that go toward making sure that inner city people get every advantage that any other person does. Ever hear of the "Universal Access Charge" on your phone bill? That's a fee for free internet for inner city people. So you should be thanking me for being on the internet & posting here.
I shed no tear for you or anyone else. Maybe you're trying to make something of yourself which is great, but there are many who choose laziness, crime & drugs. NOBODY is forcing anyone to stay where they are! Every advantage is there for them. In NJ there is the Mount Laurel Court Decision that requires every municipality to provide housing for every economic level. So get off the bandwagon! BTW: I'm sure your old car has plenty violations on it for the police to legitimately pull you over but you'd never admit it. Get lost.
I shed no tear for you or anyone else. Maybe you're trying to make something of yourself which is great, but there are many who choose laziness, crime & drugs. NOBODY is forcing anyone to stay where they are! Every advantage is there for them. In NJ there is the Mount Laurel Court Decision that requires every municipality to provide housing for every economic level. So get off the bandwagon! BTW: I'm sure your old car has plenty violations on it for the police to legitimately pull you over but you'd never admit it. Get lost.
dragontooth73
Moderator
Man, that's harsh ... very uncalled for and serious lack of tact. If you respect the 2nd and RKBA, then respect the 1st and acknowledge its spirit.
Mal H, i've seen some other threads that you tried to move and couldn't ... sorry you've been having such a rough day
Mal H, i've seen some other threads that you tried to move and couldn't ... sorry you've been having such a rough day
yeah right
Inactive
A post like this happens to fall under the 1st Amendment & paying everyone else's way thru taxes infringes on my right to pursue happiness. I'm just not afraid to call it as it is.
yeah right
all right
The way you present yourself to the world will evoke an equal response from the Police to the man on the street.
This can be positive or negative depending on your clothing and attitude..
anyway, not to change the subject
but
to change the subject:
Anyone else excited about the new Mauser M2
pistol comming out??????
I have some Mauser firearms and they are really great....
any opinions??????
all right
The way you present yourself to the world will evoke an equal response from the Police to the man on the street.
This can be positive or negative depending on your clothing and attitude..
anyway, not to change the subject
but
to change the subject:
Anyone else excited about the new Mauser M2
pistol comming out??????
I have some Mauser firearms and they are really great....
any opinions??????