At first, I shot 25-30 grain loads and the gun seemed rather anemic. Later, I tried 10-15 grain loads and the gun actually seemed more powerful, like it needs the extra barrel length more than it needs the extra powder. If you really want to get the most out of the Philadelphia Derringer, try 10-15 grains of FFFFg instead of FFFg.
Killing Lincoln, Derringer Penetration
- Thread starter deerslayer303
- Start date
Rainbow Demon
New member
I've read that when doctors tried to treat Lincoln one probed the wound and said the bullet had gone towards one eye while another probed the wound and said it went towards the other eye.
In Boothe's Diary he had written that he had double loaded his deringers. They've always taken this to mean that he had used a doubled powder charge, but if he instead had used two balls instead of one that would explain a twin wound track through the brain.
In Boothe's Diary he had written that he had double loaded his deringers. They've always taken this to mean that he had used a doubled powder charge, but if he instead had used two balls instead of one that would explain a twin wound track through the brain.
It always seemed odd to me that those Jukar Philadelphia Derringer kits didn't have a rear sight, yet the barrel was rifled.
I wonder if the original was a smoothbore, I really don't see the point of rifling a gun like this.
A little internet research answers the question, not only was it rifled, it had a left hand twist, and it was a .44 caliber, probably shot a .433 patched roundball.
I wonder if the original was a smoothbore, I really don't see the point of rifling a gun like this.
A little internet research answers the question, not only was it rifled, it had a left hand twist, and it was a .44 caliber, probably shot a .433 patched roundball.
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North East Redneck
New member
BLE, that was my thinking. A charge of 25-30gr would be overkill in barrel that short. Not that I won't try it, just thought the ball would be more stable in flight with a smaller charge. Been wrong before, not afraid of being wrong again. I will play around with it and see what works in this gun.
Well, I now only have a couple of BP guns. I was always told that black powder needed a longer barrel to be able to burn all the powder. A short derringer would probably be more effective with a smaller load, say 15 or20 grains rather than 35 or 40. Most of the unburnt powder would just be blown out the front. In that era it was felt that short barrel derringers didn't need sights, they were designed to be used no farther than the length of a card table or closer. IMO , in a rush and adrenaline pumping, I'm surprised that Booth was able to hit President Lincoln at five feet. He had to be closer.
When all of you armchair experts run your test and convince yourselves that a
Light powder charge is the way to go, then you will see that a 40 gr charge
Of Goex FFF black powder is the way to go if you want velocity in these short
Barrel pistols. It' amazing how each generation has to learn for themselves.
I'm 70 by the way. I have chronograph mine and ran penetrate test. I know
Of what I speak. My pistol is the CVA Philly. I have had for 40 yrs. Good Luck
Light powder charge is the way to go, then you will see that a 40 gr charge
Of Goex FFF black powder is the way to go if you want velocity in these short
Barrel pistols. It' amazing how each generation has to learn for themselves.
I'm 70 by the way. I have chronograph mine and ran penetrate test. I know
Of what I speak. My pistol is the CVA Philly. I have had for 40 yrs. Good Luck
brazosdave
New member
well, unless one of you can prove otherwise with a chrono and a penetration test, I will have to go with what the gentleman above said. 40 grains is the best
kwhi43@kc.rr.com could very well be right. I shot my CVA philly maybe 20 or so times since I got it 34 years ago. I know that 20 grains works fine for close up work, and 50 grains will make the ball bounce off a hard piece of wood. I just stuck with 20 grains of fffg, and never tried to optimize a gun I never planned to do much with. Couldn't imagine spending much time and effort to see what it could do. Still can't, don't really care.
brazosdave
New member
I don't own a philly derringer, but I do own the .45 colonial, which has kind of a short barrel too. I like to kick up the charge a bit with it, they can be accurate, and they are oh so fun to shoot!
Here is a link from test ran by the "The Box of Truth" Note the difference
Between 30 grs and 40 grs. www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu66.htm
Between 30 grs and 40 grs. www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu66.htm
Chronograph measurements with these derringers are hard to find!
In this thread, a fellow named Don reported 544 fps with 30 grains of powder -
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fid/19/tid/277123/
In this thread, a fellow named Don reported 544 fps with 30 grains of powder -
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?fid/19/tid/277123/
For a good reason.
I pesonally hesitate to risk my chronograph to a weapon that is that hard to shoot accurately. I at least want a rear sight on it before shooting it over the chronograph screens.
I have to be at least 10 ft away from the chronograph or I will get errors and junk readings from the muzzle blast.
Yep, that makes sense. Maybe some intrepid soul will "trick out" his derringer with a shoulder stock and scope, so he can chrono the loads 
Reading the post from "Don" again, he states that the powder he used was Pyro-P..... if that was 30 grains measured by weight (instead of volume), wouldn't that be equivalent to roughly 35 grains of blackpowder?
Reading the post from "Don" again, he states that the powder he used was Pyro-P..... if that was 30 grains measured by weight (instead of volume), wouldn't that be equivalent to roughly 35 grains of blackpowder?
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Mine has sights. A small brass pin on the front of the barrel, and you use the
Slot in the screw on the rear of the barrel. Just turn the screw so as to sight
Thru it. I have shot mine at 25 yds quite a lot, and I can hit the paper on the
Regular 25 yd NRA pistol target. You wouldn't want me to shoot at you at that
Distance. I could probably get 5 hits out of 10.
Slot in the screw on the rear of the barrel. Just turn the screw so as to sight
Thru it. I have shot mine at 25 yds quite a lot, and I can hit the paper on the
Regular 25 yd NRA pistol target. You wouldn't want me to shoot at you at that
Distance. I could probably get 5 hits out of 10.