Just registered there, what a waste of my time. There are very few anti's there, mostly fellow gunnys and the software used/style of board sucks. I don't think anti's really gather and have much to talk about. I'll stick to TFL, AR-15.com and others for my entertainment and informational needs. When I have something to rant about I'll try to write my anti-gun representatives in congress.
Killguns.org, the anti TFL
- Thread starter dZ
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Iso1,
Stay active. You're doing well.
Taking the High Road is difficult at times, but (unfortuately rarely) occasionally enlightens an anti-rights follower - or at least puts doubts in their minds.
The Low Road only confirms their worst opinions of us and, in the mind of the anti-rights crowd, dedicates them all the more to work against us.
Stay active. You're doing well.
Taking the High Road is difficult at times, but (unfortuately rarely) occasionally enlightens an anti-rights follower - or at least puts doubts in their minds.
The Low Road only confirms their worst opinions of us and, in the mind of the anti-rights crowd, dedicates them all the more to work against us.
This site had a brief flicker of a sentance that said it is a 501 (c)(3) organization (if I saw right). Be sure to write them a letter requesting copies of the IRS form 1023 Application for Exemption and the 990 or 990 EZ Corporate Tax Form. They CAN charge you for the cost of reproduction and postage. If they don't provide the info they can be hit for penalties under 6685 of the tax code. BUT if the IRS determines the forms are widely available (on the Net for instance) or that a harrassment campaign is being conducted then the organization need not furnish the forms. I don't advocate any harrassment, just healthy curiousity.
Frankly I am curious as to why it is 501 (c)(3) rather than 501 (c)(4). Sounds like more of the MMM Bravo Sierra...
Frankly I am curious as to why it is 501 (c)(3) rather than 501 (c)(4). Sounds like more of the MMM Bravo Sierra...
walangkatapat
New member
Taking the high road? Where has that gotten gun owners for the last eight years? Where has it gotten the Republican Party in the last two elections? Some times you have to fight fire with fire.
walangkatapat,
“Some times you have to fight fire with fire.”
As a former firefighter I can assure that is an over-rated tactic.
Though backfires may be used under some controlled outdoor conditions, one seldom starts
a second fire when trying to save a structure. Our Republic is the structure we are
trying to save. Secondary fires are not yet called for.
Note that we never have tried the High Road, only appeasement - slow death by one-sided "compromises".
I have an idea to share on TFL after we learn who will become our President. Like
most of us, I hope it will be Dubya.
“Some times you have to fight fire with fire.”
As a former firefighter I can assure that is an over-rated tactic.
Though backfires may be used under some controlled outdoor conditions, one seldom starts
a second fire when trying to save a structure. Our Republic is the structure we are
trying to save. Secondary fires are not yet called for.
Note that we never have tried the High Road, only appeasement - slow death by one-sided "compromises".
I have an idea to share on TFL after we learn who will become our President. Like
most of us, I hope it will be Dubya.
There is a a pretty good sized group of people out there who think that the lines in sand have all ready been drawn. I don't agree with them, but they think that the scorched earth policy is the only way to go. They say that there is no reasoning with anti-gunners, so what the heck, who cares what they think about us?
Unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary to educate our own before we start working on others. Such is life, two steps forward and one step back.
Joe
Unfortunately, sometimes it is necessary to educate our own before we start working on others. Such is life, two steps forward and one step back.
Joe
walangkatapat
New member
Dennis I have to disagree with you, because this tactic never seems to hurt the dems or antis, I know it should, but it never seems to. I do agree that taking the high road would be my choice of doing things, but when the opposition is gaining ground we should start looking at different strategies. As you know Gore may very well steal this election by fraud when this type of thing is going on it's time to take the gloves off.
walangkatapat
New member
Dennis, Note that we never have tried the High Road, only appeasement - slow death by one-sided "compromises".
This is very true, although the word capitulation fits better.
This is very true, although the word capitulation fits better.
Walangkatapat,
think on this. What is one reason that we gunners are so disgusted with the antis? Because of their serious intellectual dishonesty and shady tactics. So what is the best way to fight that? With brute force and loud words or with an insistent and well-reasoned line of argument that will erode their foundation of sand? Shouting at a wall will get you nothing.
Go to http://www.irs.gov, go to forms and publications, highlight Form 1023 and 990, download and read carefully the section on which actions are allowable and which INCUR PENALTIES LEVIED BY THE IRS and use the discrepency between The Law and The Deed to pin back the ears of the spud-boy.
This is a chance to carry the battle to the foe in a lawful, reasonable, and unshouting way (if the site is indeed in violation of the IRS code).
What is the first rule of conflict? Know thy foe. Use the law to compel spud-boy to provide you with his organizing documents as the first step to putting a stop to the intellectual shyster-ism.
think on this. What is one reason that we gunners are so disgusted with the antis? Because of their serious intellectual dishonesty and shady tactics. So what is the best way to fight that? With brute force and loud words or with an insistent and well-reasoned line of argument that will erode their foundation of sand? Shouting at a wall will get you nothing.
Go to http://www.irs.gov, go to forms and publications, highlight Form 1023 and 990, download and read carefully the section on which actions are allowable and which INCUR PENALTIES LEVIED BY THE IRS and use the discrepency between The Law and The Deed to pin back the ears of the spud-boy.
This is a chance to carry the battle to the foe in a lawful, reasonable, and unshouting way (if the site is indeed in violation of the IRS code).
What is the first rule of conflict? Know thy foe. Use the law to compel spud-boy to provide you with his organizing documents as the first step to putting a stop to the intellectual shyster-ism.
JMBrowning
Moderator
Good idea,iso1,but
if we repealed all of the gun-control laws,thousands of middle level bureaucrats with bad comb-overs would be put out of work.
We can't have that,can we?
if we repealed all of the gun-control laws,thousands of middle level bureaucrats with bad comb-overs would be put out of work.
We can't have that,can we?
walangkatapat
New member
Bam Bam, I never said we need to use intellectual dishonesty or shady tactics, but when one side is shouting and our side can't be heard, what do you suggest we do?
One of the first things an officer learns on the street, is when someone is screaming, ranting and raving, shouting back at them only makes things worse.
When you get someone in your face, screaming, you simply speak firmly in a normal tone of voice and courteously. This calms down 90% of the people you meet, and when you wind up going rodeo on the last 10%, your courteous behavior prior to the bouncing and bloodletting sways bystanders and witnesses away from the critters viewpoint.
I see no reason why this wouldn't hold true in the RKBA shout-fest.
LawDog
When you get someone in your face, screaming, you simply speak firmly in a normal tone of voice and courteously. This calms down 90% of the people you meet, and when you wind up going rodeo on the last 10%, your courteous behavior prior to the bouncing and bloodletting sways bystanders and witnesses away from the critters viewpoint.
I see no reason why this wouldn't hold true in the RKBA shout-fest.
LawDog
If we shout back it will only confirm the delusion of the antis that we 2nders are on the brink of being "out of control". As you say, we are having trouble being represented in the media and in the public eye. Use the truth, if spud-boy is misusing the tax code to support his site then nail his butt with the law. If he is within the law, think hard, examine his 990 (which he has to supply within 30 days for a written request) and work on turning his support with well written letters, etc. Youre on the first step to taking the battle to the foe, rather than leting him dictate the terms of debate.
walangkatapat
New member
Have we been winning?
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Hey, LawDog!
I agree with what you say about the 90%/10%.
It seems to me, after 33 years in this gun-argument, that there is an unending supply of troops to be ten-percenters.
I have watched the tactics of the control-crowd. They will not stay with facts, they will not engage in rational discussion. They lie, change the subject, employ every tactic to twist our positions on any facet of the control of misuse of firearms.
Now, I would not go to the Killguns Site and be rude and discourteous. I will, in an amicable manner, point out that I am coming to resent being alluded to as some sort of cretinous yahoo, some sort of knuckle-dragging imbecile. I would suggest to these people that they might re-think their entire vision of those who own guns, in that these very people who so insult us are still alive, unharmed, and, verily, protected by us.
, Art
I agree with what you say about the 90%/10%.
It seems to me, after 33 years in this gun-argument, that there is an unending supply of troops to be ten-percenters.
I have watched the tactics of the control-crowd. They will not stay with facts, they will not engage in rational discussion. They lie, change the subject, employ every tactic to twist our positions on any facet of the control of misuse of firearms.
Now, I would not go to the Killguns Site and be rude and discourteous. I will, in an amicable manner, point out that I am coming to resent being alluded to as some sort of cretinous yahoo, some sort of knuckle-dragging imbecile. I would suggest to these people that they might re-think their entire vision of those who own guns, in that these very people who so insult us are still alive, unharmed, and, verily, protected by us.
, ArtWe have to win this war on reasoned and intelligent discourse, not on emotion. If we do not convince the enemy that their position is intellectually untenable and dishonest, then they will never stop, ever. We may win the occasional skirmish in a screeching shout fest, but unless the enemy has lost the will to fight, they will simply fall back, regroup and attack on another front.
I understand that the antis aren’t using reason or intelligence in their arguments, and in most cases downright lie. But we cannot lower ourselves to that level. That is their playground, not ours. A victory on their terms is not a victory; it is a delusion, a lie.
There will never be total agreement on both sides, but this is America and disagreement is healthy for the process of self-government. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that some misguided people disagree with my right to keep and bear arms. As long as they are willing to accept my position, we will simply agree to disagree.
In the end, and I mean the very end, if they cannot accept the fact that gun ownership in America is a fundamental right of its citizens, then they have to overcome the fact that there are 200 million guns in this country that they will have to confiscate muzzle first…
Ken
I understand that the antis aren’t using reason or intelligence in their arguments, and in most cases downright lie. But we cannot lower ourselves to that level. That is their playground, not ours. A victory on their terms is not a victory; it is a delusion, a lie.
There will never be total agreement on both sides, but this is America and disagreement is healthy for the process of self-government. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that some misguided people disagree with my right to keep and bear arms. As long as they are willing to accept my position, we will simply agree to disagree.
In the end, and I mean the very end, if they cannot accept the fact that gun ownership in America is a fundamental right of its citizens, then they have to overcome the fact that there are 200 million guns in this country that they will have to confiscate muzzle first…
Ken
They must have hated me off the get go, I attempted to register on my work computer & @ home w/ no luck either time, said i was registered but I could never get it to accept my password. I understand that there was some funny stuff over there, of course it's not high roadish but you have to admit, these lowlifes deserve a good harassment every now and again. Wish I could have seen all the fun.
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