Kids, guns and mass shootings

My wife's nephew had a similar insight. His thought was that too many children grow up always being told they are, in his words, a "special snowflake". They are protected from failure and hurt. Then they start to hit the "real" world.
 
I started teaching my kids reality before even taking them hunting. When they were toddlers, shooting their very first shaken cans of soda and would shoot it making a big spray, I would stop, go get the split can of soda and bring it to them and tell them to "fix-it" and "make it better". Then, while they were standing there dumbfounded I would tell them that this is real, this is not TV. This is what would happen to your Mother or Brother if you shot them. Then when they were older I took them small game hunting and repeat the learning process.

My kids were like any other kids and would fight. Raging at each other sometimes. I couldn't afford a safe back then so loaded guns were all over the house. They never did even hint to picking up a gun. They understood the finality of the gun and reality.

Many of my ideas and instruction were gleaned from Massad Ayoobs book, Gunproof you Children. Excellant book.
 
The professional literature has not proven a strong predictive role for violent games.
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I remember an interview with Dr. Joice Brothers right after Columbine. She was asked if she thought the violence in the media could have negative effects. Her answer? She basically said that giant corporations believe so strongly that they can change a persons behavior that they are willing to pay millions of dollars a minute for a commercial. How could you believe that hundreds of hours of violence on TV could not have some effect, especially on children. Seems a strong argument. Would video games, being more participatory be better or worse I don't know. I certainly don't think they would reduce a penchant for violence.
 
Dr. Joyce Brother was Skinnerian rat psychologist who went media expert.

There is a large literature on whether video games have any predictive validity as to causing violence. The initial wave was that in the lab, kids exposed to such would act out against dolls. In adults, after seeing violent videos subjects would act more aggressively against others. How - well, they honked horns louder at people who made mistakes, put more tabasco sauce in drinks they made for others or recognized negative words faster.

This was challenged as not being able to be linked to real world violence. In many cases, the findings didn't replicate or the effect lasted only a few minutes. So many current researchers doubt the effect. Dr. Brothers is not a source.

But if you want to make the case as Wayne LaP. did that violent video games are a problem, the same exact methodologies demonstrate that exposure to guns or images of such produce the same effects.

He can't have it both ways.

There is good evidence that exposure to guns can influence decisions in mock jury deliberations. That's quite different from pushing someone to be a rampage shooter.

And - if you argue that we need religion in the schools - the same methodology has 'demonstrated' that religious passages containing violence also make you think more aggressive thoughts.

So pick your poison. My read of the real literature and not some idiot talking head is that we can't demonstrate that someone is pushed over the edge by media.

What you have is more complex. The shooters are fundamentally disturbed. They are vulnerable to hostile ideation and then they seek out representations that confirm their beliefs or instruct them. Studying Columbine and VT are common among the ones caught before they could carry out a rampage. But the study of such is driven by the pathology.

To avoid this effect, we would have to totally control news media, historical sources and religious texts. No more WWII on the History Channel. Hardly any current movies, etc.

Fundamentally sound folks are not driven over the edge by exposure to games, media, guns or God. Do we control all of these for those who are not stable? That is a very small number.

Wayne thought he was clever in diversion but it was not really a telling argument. If he buys into the media violence connect, he has to buy into a violence and gun connection as both are part of the same aggressive priming paradigm.
 
From the dreaded NYTimes - this is an interesting article on how we don't do enough for the mentally ill in terms of treating them and protecting us against them.

It would have been a better talking point for major focus that Wayne LaP.'s video tirade:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/opinion/our-failed-approach-to-schizophrenia.html

As pointed many of the recent rampages came from seriously ill shooters who were not diagnosed, treated or cataloged successfully for NICS (Cho) when they should have been.
 
I completely agree with rickrick. When I was a young boy I pointed my bb gun at my sister. I expected a few go rounds with the belt. Instead dad took my favorite rabbit from the hutch. We proceeded to drive about five miles from the house. Dad took the rabbit out, turned him loose and put the little guy down
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What i find worrying about that story is that you seem to think that's normal behaviour. Shooting a child's pet rabbit could leave them disturbed. I think the people carrying out shootings are very aware of the effects of firearms. I don't buy the video came thing has anything to do with the shootings. There are lots of violent films on TV also things in life that can put people over the edge.
 
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What i find worrying about that story is that you seem to think that's normal behaviour
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When I was a kid that was just at the tail end of being normal behavior. I assume, given the comments about the belt, also something I was lucky enough to find the tail end of normalcy on, I have to imagine he's at least as old, if not older than I am. It was a different time, when different things were normal.
 
Lot's of good info here.

I do kind of buy into the video game thing being bad, only because of the methodology used. I also see similarities between video game methodologies and mass killer methodologies which is eye opening.

Video games which are shooters have been around for a long time, but early shooter games were very limited in their educational approach. Later shooter's have you shooting people not always from a clear "good guy" point of view. Actually, often you strive to be the worst bad guy. You are rewarded for killing good people and bad people, just different points.

The key in all this is that the imagery is very real. You are not encouraged to take a good guy viewpoint usually. Negative behavior is rewarded. Your ability to learn and emulate bad behaviors with weapons creates success both in instant gratification and long term solving the game success. This game success gives them some basic tactical skill and has been a good trainer about the basics of amassing an arsenal and preparing for virtual battle.

Add to this that many gamers play somewhere between as much as their parents will let them to every waking minute except during school and dinner. Often high school graduation means the ability to game 24/7 living with parents until they throw you out or force you to get a job. This creates a social disfunction which leaves many super gamers disconnected from peers and reality.


Then there are online communities. . . .
- (Mr. 3 posts) Hey, I need to know what the must have weapons are for protecting myself from zombies, bg's attacking house. . . .later in post. . .how do I buy this super weapon?. . .How do I buy ammo for my blaster? 3000 rounds of course. . . .oh yea and where do I get body armor?
- We all know these answers, and we use them for peaceful means, but can this info be used for someone transitioning from video games to mass shooter.

All this information is just information and we have laws in place to keep people with mental issues from buying guns. The reason that they still get them is we don't seem to have a good way to reach out to mentally ill people and get them help and keep them off the OK list for buying guns.

So, if we want some kind of gun ban, it would be best to figure out how to enforce the current gun ban related to the mentally ill. The best way is to identify and diagnose these people.
 
I have played video games since the atari console came out, and have continued to play through their progression from that, to mario bro.s to doom to callof duty. I also hunted birds and rabbits and small game as a youngster. probably shouldnt post this here but In all honesty during those days i was placed on anti depressants and add drugs by pediatrics citing inability to stay focused in school, after many years of this "treatment" I began to experience what i would call bad thoughts. Once i was out of the house i voluntarily discontinued the use of those so called medications. Many years now after that those problems are long gone, still play the kinds of video games many describe (i am 30 y/o now) but have absolutely no symptoms of suicide or such. I know first hand that those drugs most often compound a problem making it worse i would warn new parents to keep their kids off of it its no good. Combine that stuff with those video games and you may well have a real problem.
 
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