Keyes for president??

S

SCR1

New member
Has anyone else noticed that Alan Keyes has been having incredibly strong performances in the debates. I love what this man has to say. I believe his platform has caused other Republicans to work on a more conservative platform for themselves. I am wondering if a Bush/Keyes or even a Keyes/Bush :) ticket could be in the works. I think Keyes can draw the Libertarian votes to the republicans for a landslide victory.

Steve
 
Hmmm. I wonder if Dr. Keyes is "viable"...

Sorry! Couldn't resist.

This is a political thread so I must move it from General to Legal/Political.

(Hang on! Here we goooooooo!)

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
Many who get their news from non-traditional media (read: "the Internet") have been noticing Keyes for a while now. The traditional media (ABC/NBC/CBS/NYTimes/WAPost/et al) want you to accept the "Socialism Lite" candidate, McCain, which is why you don't hear much about Keyes from them.

One thing about Keyes' debate and on-line poll results you must realize - these results are heavily skewed towards a more highly educated, thoughtful, politically involved portion of the electorate. These adjectives apply to less and less of the general election voter base.

I'm certainly voting for Keyes in the primary.

I love the idea of a Keyes Vice-Presidency, but I'm afraid we're going to get E.Dole to appeal to the soccer mom demographic. She's on record as being a hoplophobic gun grabber.
 
well, if he's to be excluded from the pres/VP ticket- how bout Attorney General Keyes??
that wouldn't be so bad
so what if he isn't a lawyer- he knows the US constitution better than Reno.
 
Why does the guy only run for President? We could use him in the House or Senate too. It might boost his chances for the Pres in the future.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingcreek:
well, if he's to be excluded from the pres/VP ticket- how bout Attorney General Keyes??
that wouldn't be so bad
so what if he isn't a lawyer- he knows the US constitution better than Reno.[/quote]

I don't think there is a requirement that the Attorney General of the U.S. has to be a lawyer.

I'd really like to see Alan Keyes as VP. Reckon GeeDubya will likely be the Presidential candidate. With Keyes as VP Nominee, this could be a winning ticket.
It would keep the Liberals from using the race card, as they so love to do.
 
Had to go there didn't ya dennis?? LOL I believe that a Bush/Keyes ticket would be a strong one, one that is "Viable" setting up the Libertarians for an excellent shot at the big chair later, If keyes ends up with the Nomination, I am all over it, if he takes the VP chair I will be there as well. Lets see what the future holds!

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...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe
The ANTI-HCI Site!
 
Well, all ya gotta do is get Junior W to forgo the traditional "Your VP is your insurance policy" outlook, :D so he'll be comfortable with a smarter man in the #2 - "just a heartbeat away..." :rolleyes:
I'm gonna hold my nose and vote for junior W, not because I think he's good, not because I agree with him about much, but because he will appoint several Supremes and other justices, and I believe he can beat Gore/Bradley and drag in some more gumpublicans to support his picks. This does not make me a happy voter! :mad: :mad: :mad:

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The Bill of Rights, and the Golden Rule are enough for civilized behavior. The rest is window dressing. Shoot carefully, swifter...
 
Assuming the Gov. Bush wins the GOP nomination, why would he want Mr. Keyes as his running mate? Gov. Bush will need to look at what a potential running mate will bring to the table.

Mr. Keyes is a brilliant man and a skilled orator, he is probably the most intellegent man running in either party. However, Mr. Keyes has run for Senate twice and was overwhelming defeated twice. He has run for President once before and was able to garner only minor support. He is only getting minor (6% +/-) support now.

Mr. Keyes seems able to garner diehard support from hard core (that is not meant as a negative) conservatives yet has been unable to gather enough support to win anything. Being intellegent or having good ideas does not necessary make one a good candidate for President. Pres. Carter was a very intellegent and caring man yet a disaster as President. The same can be said for Pres. Woodrow Wilson. He was a college professor who was unable to accomplish anything because of an inability to work with Congress due to an overabundance of arrogance. I think that I have some good ideas too (I agree with them 100%), but I am not qualified to be President, or V.P., just based on my ideas.

Lately in debates Mr. Keyes has been doing some very unusual things, such as refusing to answer questions and arguing with moderators, that do nothing to broaden his support base. One can argue that these questions have little to do with being President, but what does he gain by refusing to answer them? It just makes him look angry, argumentative and unreasonable to anyone other than his die hard supporters.

While securing support for the ticket with hard core conservatives, I believe that Mr. Keyes would drive away moderate voters to the Democrats. My favorite choice for V.P. is Congressman J.C. Watts. He brings all the positives of Mr. Keyes; good orator, very conservative and he reduces the ability for the Dems. to use race as a factor. He also brings things that Mr. Keyes can not. He has been a success in everything he has attempted in life. Congressman Watts will broaden the tickets appeal, not narrow it.

A Presidential election is as much a game of tactics as any war. You can have the most brilliant tactician for a general, but if the soldiers will not follow him, you will lose the war.
 
And we've been using "tactics" since Prohibition - and look what it got us.

We have registration of new guns and gun buyers. Outlawing certain "ugly" guns with low priced guns (Saturday Night Specials) being next.

Negotiating with brownshirts is a failed program. Proof?
- Let a 15 year old run down to Western Auto and buy a gun giving U.S. dollars as the only requirement for the purchase.
- Show me a full auto firearm you can buy without government permission and taxation.
- Show me a legal SKS rifle with a detachable magazine in California.
- Show me your new handgun with a 15 round magazine.

Nothing breeds success like success. And our only success has been slowing our defeats.

Wow! What a plan! :p

It's like the government "assisting" us into the cattle cars and we declare it a victory!

Oy! Such help already!

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited January 17, 2000).]
 
Dennis,

So we totally ignore tactics and go with a proven loser just because we like the words he speaks??

Me? I choose to go with the best we have that has a chance of winning! When someone better, that has a chance to garner 50.1% of the vote, comes along I will go with that person. I don't expect to reverse the trend of the last 40 or so years overnight. I will take increments if that is all that is offered.

It does no good to lament about what has happened in the past. We must change the future. Mr. Keyes will not, and CAN not, be that agent of change! We need not only a good message, but we need a messanger that can move that message forward as well.

People speak of Mr. Keyes as being the "saviour" of our nation without the slightest idea of how he will reverse his history of losing elections. He has NEVER won anything. Shouldn't that tell us something!
 
Cactus and Dennis, It's pretty safe to say neither of you will be voting for a dem in the prez election. So, debating whether or not bush or keyes will win is moot after the primary. I personally agree with Dennis, but I would prefer a libertarian candidate. The reps have been no better than dems on the issues about which I care.
 
Cruiserman, I agree.
==========

Cactus,

I was a little strident this morning. For that, I’ll apologize.

Now, you’ve pretty well summarized the position of compromise so let me
try to answer you point by point.

Elections are about votes - about *winning* elections not (as NATO likes to
say) “minimizing collateral damage”.

As far as proven losers go, that’s us. That’s you, me, and every gun owner
in America over the last sixty or so years. When we vote for someone like
Bush, we are voting to lose our gun rights nice and slowly - so it won’t hurt
so much “all at once”. The final goal, for Bush, Bradley, McCain, Gore and
all the rest is the elimination of firearms in America. Already our
government has begun the gradual process of making us “fit” what the
United Nations considers a “civilized” nation free of all small arms.

The “red herring” used is “for the children”. Well, just read DC’s thread,
“This is Julie” to see what they are doing “for the children”.

Cactus, I believe you and I agree on more than bystanders may realize so
let’s get that out of the way first.

1) Gun controls are unconstitutional.
2) We have more unconstitutional gun control than we used to have.
3) We have less unconstitutional gun control than we are about to be
burdened with.
4) The Democrats are Socialists who would try to ban all firearms today if
they could.
Let’s stop there. ---- I believe we agree on those four points. Right?
-----

Neither of us is “ignoring” tactics - we simply have different ideas about the
solution to unconstitutional gun control.

-----

As I understand your position, you believe Bush is the nominee for
President who will hurt us less than Gore. Therefore, to ensure we don’t
lose more than we need to lose, we should play it safe and support Bush.
(You probably have more thoughts than that simplistic statement, but that
is what I understand at the moment.)

I disagree. The gradual slide into tyranny represented by Republican
tactics dulls our senses and resolve. As the current “electable” Republicans
gradually lead us into subservience, we believe each little transgression is
too little to dispute - after all, “it’s less that what a Democrat would have
done”. The only difference between the Democrats and the “electable”
Republicans is that Republicans are more patient in their striving for
totalitarian power.

-----

As I understand your position, you believe anyone who believes as we do
about gun control can not be elected.

I disagree. I believe we need to awaken gun owners to vote for our
Constitution (and their guns). Last election less than half of the eligible
American voters actually cast a vote. Rather than bemoan that fact, let’s
use it to our advantage. If 1/2 the gun owners voted for freedom instead of
the status quo, we probably could elect anyone on the ballot.

-----

I understand you to believe that any vote not cast for a “winner” like Bush
is a wasted vote and increases the chance of Gore winning the election.

I disagree. If we voted our beliefs rather than our fears, I believe we could
win. But our fears won’t let us fight with our votes. What will our children
have to fight with to regain what we voted away?

Furthermore, even if we lost, our federal government would be forced to
acknowledge our attempt as a protest vote. They would know we are
becoming stronger rather than weaker. They would know that we
recognized their elitist efforts to lead us into subservience. Their personal
careers - their gravy trains - would be endangered and they would temper
their totalitarian efforts. Look how the Republicans and Democrats panicked
when Perot made his half-hearted effort to run against them. It truly united
the Republocrats against this inept intruder to “their” government!

-----

I understand you to believe that your vote for Bush is a vote against Gore.

I disagree. A vote for Bush is a vote for Bush - the same man who
promised more gun control.

-----

What I truly marvel at, is how I was berated for supporting libertarian
concepts. I was accused of “voting for Gore” because I would not vote for a
Republican.

Now There’s a Republican who says the Second Amendment means exactly
what it says! He says he would cut our bloated, intrusive, tyrannical
government in half.

Even though the press ignores him, he has come in second or third in most
of the recent internet polls. He has gained support quicker than anyone
except Daddy’s boy GW!

Yet, Keyes is called “a proven loser”.

He says everything *we say* that we want in our conversations on TFL. But
we are afraid to vote for him. He’s “a proven loser.”

Better to elect someone with *experience* - a proven winner!!

Well, how have we done in the past with our “proven winners”? We have
lost everything but what they plan to take in the future!

Bush says he will enact gun control and TFLers respond, “Oh he’s only
saying what he must say to be elected. He doesn’t really mean it!” Pardon
me? Have the Republicans repealed ANY gun control measures? Have the
Republicans, in their compromises with their fellow Democrats actually
defeated any gun control measures? Before you answer that, look at what
Bush will enact when he becomes President.

What the Republicans “defeated” they will enact as soon as they have the power to do so and make it stick.

-----

The bottom line is that Keyes is the only libertarian (small “L”) running for
President under the Republican banner. Every other candidate promises
more gun control - even while they tell us they will support our Rights, they
tell of future restrictions, registrations, taxations, and confiscations.

If you vote for gun control, you will get gun control. And voting for
“less” gun control will, at the very best, give you only “less” gun control.

And “less” gun control only means registration of guns and gun owners, and
eventual banning of firearms, will happen during our children’s lifetime
rather than ours.

We’ve already agreed that the gun-banning brownshirts can NOT be
satisfied. After every single “compromise” they have come back and
demanded more gun control.

Therefore, I simply can not vote for gun control. I can not vote for those
who will give it to us immediately or for those who will enslave our children.

-----

You may cover a cow pie with whipped cream, but under the surface it
remains what it always was.

You may cover a vote for gun control with the title of “tactics”, but under
the surface it remains what it always was - a vote for gun control.

It is a shameful thing, NOT a brave thing, to enslave our children
rather than voting for freedom.

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited January 18, 2000).]
 
Good Lord Dennis,
Cactus welcome to the oops I pushed Dennis's big red Libertarian button club, at least you didn't use the word "viable" he still beats me with it!
Dennis you make a strong point, but to my understanding from this post and others you would rather see the Democrats in control so that they could yank the rug out all at once and send a wake-up call all through out the Gun owning community?? So they will jump up and do what? At that point, What? You can't even get enough of them out of their chairs to go vote a PRO Gun Candidate into office. Anyone who has watched Keyes on the Stump can see that he has the moxy to make things happen, all the Moxy in the world will not help us one Ioata if our protest vote siphones off enough votes to ensure a Democratic win ( IE the Perot vote) To call Keyes a Proven Loser was unfair, He is bringing our issues to the table, a sudden boost in thew polls will get alot of attention, I highly doubt that it will get enough to get him the Nomination, But enough to move our agenda up in the platform priorities, If he gets the Nod he gets my vote, if he takes the second chair, he gets my vote, but I refuse to ensure another Democratic win at the expense of my rights, I wage a daily battle, I send letters to Congressmen as does my wife, I use faxes and letters to let my voice be heard, I must say I have gotten some great responses and some painful ones, but I am fighting the god fight. Get 80 Million people to write a couple of letters and send them an watch that response, However that also appears to much to ask. If we cannot get them to pick up a pen how do you expect to get enough of them out to pull off a major surprise victory for a libertarian candidate (Keyes) or even enough to pull off a major protest vote? I hear you brother loud and clear...How do we get there from here WITHOUT throwing our second amendment rights into the trash at a highly accelerated rate?? I will still vote for GW, I think he would do well to have mr. Keyes as a runningmate, I think he may surprise even you Dennis....Smile brother you are loved,



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...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” --Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

Take care and God Bless, El Jefe
The ANTI-HCI Site!
 
Protest Vote? When you vote for the man you truly want for president, how is that a protest vote? Sad but true that even TFL'ers are duped by the Republican stratagy of fear. Fear that the Democrats will be worse than the Repubs. I'm not going to bet my son's liberty on a man who already said he opposes my son's liberty. At what point do you stop bending over for those who've done nothing but hurt your cause? A vote for Keyes is a vote for constitutional government, and this must strike fear in your heart of hearts. Just today, I heard them telling me about how if you vote for Keyes, the cause is lost. I doubt it. When Keyes comes in second in the primary, or even third, I'd think the republicans would eventually take notice of what he's saying and try to be more like that. You will lose if you vote for Bush, and his father proved that gun control will kill your political career. Remember the import ban? Daddy hurt our cause maybe more than Klinton, and you still want to vote for Jr.? Then you'll get what you deserve.
 
Howdy, EJ,
Love in this day and age is a treasured rarity. Thank you my fellow Patriot.
BUT (yeah...here we go :D)

I thought you would pat me on the back and buy me a Big Red! I was
supporting the only available Republican! (The others are all Democrat Lite!
:rolleyes: ) Not a thing in my posts today about the Libertarians. (But
thank you for the plug! ;) )

Only in my most frustrated moments of near-clinical depression have I ever
contemplated any possible benefit of electing a (ptui!) Democrat. I have
tried NOT to permit such pessimism intrude into my TFL posts. Hopefully
you have confused another person’s post with mine. If not, please forgive
me the temporary loss of faith in the American people. The road is long and
I tire....

I’m glad, even thrilled to see you like Ambassador Keyes.

Like you, I fear his values are too Constitutional to gain the support of the
Republican Wing and I deplore the lack of effort of gun owners to preserve
our Constitution.

I read your signature, ...“ They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Surely that
applies perfectly to supporting Bush over Keyes. (And I won’t say the rest -
THIS time! :D )

If, against my every prediction, GW turns out to be the savior of our
Constitution, no one will rejoice as fervently as I will. But I am not yet
convinced. The apple falls not far from the tree and GW’s daddy is less than
an honorable man.

On a side note, I was aware you are an activist and have lauded you for
your efforts. However, please extend my greetings, respect, and
appreciation to your wife for her efforts. Such a marital tag-team of
political dedication in the name of liberty is all too rare among us mere
voters.

Via con Dios.

------------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
A quick question to the GWB supporters here: Will you vote for GWB if he chooses known gun-grabbers Liddy Dole or Christine Whitman as his running mate?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ipecac:
A quick question to the GWB supporters here: Will you vote for GWB if he chooses known gun-grabbers Liddy Dole or Christine Whitman as his running mate?[/quote]

I do not support GWB. MY preference is Alan Keyes. I doubt that GWB would be so foolish as to choose either of these people as his running mate. I don't think America is yet ready to embrace a female VP. I would hope that GWB would have enough sense to pick someone else. I sure as hell won't be voting for any DEMO-RAT! oops, I mean democrat.
 
Granted these are from an Internet poll, but http://www.vote.com/vResults/
shows the following:
Bush 33%
Keyes 23%
McCain 16%
Gore, Bradley, et al are in single digits.

Would that the sheeple vote the same way.

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Nevada alt C.A.N.
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
I am going to vote for Dr. Keyes in the primary, and then whoever the Republican is in the general election. I wasn't going to vote for GWB if he was the candidate. I just would sit it out, but when I hear the things the Democrats are saying it would be a disaster if one of them got elected president.Therefore, it is my view that I have to take the best of what is available. I don't like it, but I like the alternatives less. Jerry
 
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