Keltec P11 is junk says Gun Tests Magazine?
- Thread starter Jager1
- Start date
I've always like Gun Tests, but I haven't always agreed with them. They have stated many times that they rule on that trip to the range. The do not take into consideration Customer Service, Add-ons, mods, etc... If it doesn't work right out of the box, then it gets a bad rap. If you're a subscriber, look out for the e-mail selling that P11... it should have a GREAT little price on it. Buy it, send it straight to KT, and you'll have the best "POS" on the block 
Apparently the stop pin fell out during their range test. This is an uncommon, yet real problem that P11 owners have reported. They have also reported that the fix is usually as easy as replacing the pin, and sometimes (rarely) a 3-4 day trip to Kel-Tec. Those of us who own Kel-Tec's understand that almost all work straight out of the box, some need some buffing and maybe a new part, and a few require a trip back to the factory for tuning. The factory has outstanding service (they will even fix it while you wait, if you are a local). If you need a part, they will overnight it immediately and provide phone support.
I'm guessing that tolerances being sloppy, some combination of Kel-Tec parts just don't work together. If you buy one, just expect that you may get the one with the odd problem, and give yourself some leeway. It is very rare for people who send their gun in once to experience problems again (KT puts them through some serious testing to make sure of that). I have owned some small, expensive guns that were just badly designed and would never work (unsolvable FTFs with all ammo, for example). You won't experience that with Kel-Tecs.
I'm guessing that tolerances being sloppy, some combination of Kel-Tec parts just don't work together. If you buy one, just expect that you may get the one with the odd problem, and give yourself some leeway. It is very rare for people who send their gun in once to experience problems again (KT puts them through some serious testing to make sure of that). I have owned some small, expensive guns that were just badly designed and would never work (unsolvable FTFs with all ammo, for example). You won't experience that with Kel-Tecs.
I have a P-11 & had the same problem with the assembly pin. It was very easily fixed. If that is the only reason they gave the P-11 a bad review, then it is certainly misleading. My P-11 has always been 100% reliable and a lot of other people like theirs as well.
It is amazing that they recommended the Taurus PT111 after what I've read about them on this forum. If you haven't seen the reviews, do a search on this forum under "PT111" or "Millenium". It is rare to see a gun from a reputable manufacturer receive such scathing reviews.
[Edited by alamo on 02-27-2001 at 06:53 PM]
It is amazing that they recommended the Taurus PT111 after what I've read about them on this forum. If you haven't seen the reviews, do a search on this forum under "PT111" or "Millenium". It is rare to see a gun from a reputable manufacturer receive such scathing reviews.
[Edited by alamo on 02-27-2001 at 06:53 PM]
FWIW, I also rate P11 as not usable. I spend several months and lots of money sending it back and forth and running through test ammo...finally got a refund from KT. The gun ejected empties into my face quite consistently and no amount of work would change that. Others on KT list reported the same problem.
Other than that, it was a decent device with good accuracy once the heavy trigger was mastered.
Other than that, it was a decent device with good accuracy once the heavy trigger was mastered.
Interesting article about Kel-Tecs:
http://www.findarticles.com/m0BQY/2001_Annual/63922917/p1/article.jhtml
When considering these weapons, also consider that earlier serial numbers had more pronounced problems (like FTFs), hence the concept of fluff and buff.
http://www.findarticles.com/m0BQY/2001_Annual/63922917/p1/article.jhtml
When considering these weapons, also consider that earlier serial numbers had more pronounced problems (like FTFs), hence the concept of fluff and buff.
E. BeauBeaux
New member
A friend of mine bought one and has been really pleased with it. No problems in 3 years. When he first got it we tried to make it malfunction, it just kept on shooting. So after watching him with his KelTec, I bought one. If it turns out to be like my friends, I'll be happy for sure.
KAM_Indianapolis
New member
Don't know about gun tests, but I liked my P11 well enough. Trigger pull needs getting used to. Didn't have any failures to feed, despite random ammo and my own reloads.
Only sold it because I wanted a SIG and the wife put a limit on the number of hand guns I could have at one time.
Only sold it because I wanted a SIG and the wife put a limit on the number of hand guns I could have at one time.
GT`sarticle is just another opinion. Valid but certainly not the last word. I couldn`t be happier with my P-11,it`s been 100% reliable over thousands of rounds and is a constant and trusted companion. If GT thinks it`s junk that`s fine but I couldn`t care less, I know better. To be fair, a relative bought one on my recomendation a years or so ago. It had the stop pin problem, apparently a batch was made where the retaining groove wasn`t quite deep enough. He called them and they sent him a bag of 5 new stop pins in less than a week! They`re all made right and it`s been 100% ever since. There`s a double standard here too,often folks will badmouth a $240 P-11 because it had to be sent to the factory for a free tweak or repair but think a $650 1911 that needs $300 worth of gunsmith work right is just wonderful. 
Marcus
MarcusI have been a subscriber of Gun Test since 1996. I agree and disagree with them and I have taken their advice many times. I have bought both the Taurus P-111 Millenium and the Kel-Tec P-11 and both are working excellent, after many trips to the range and more than 2000rds threw them. GT did not say it was junk, in a back issue they said it was their second choice of small 9mm handgun, after the Taurus.
Never had a P11, but did have a P40. Most frustrating experience I have had where guns are concerned. Out of the box, I could get three rounds through it, max, before it malfunctioned. This occurred with a cross-section of quality factory ammo. Tried a couple of things to help, but nothing worked. It was, as a practical matter, a single shot.
Finally, in strict accordance with the instructions in the owners manual, I returned the gun to Kel-Tec. Weeks passed, and I heard nothing. I wrote to see what had happened to my gun --was not told what had been done to it, but rather was informed simply that it would be returned at my expense (after I had agreed to certain things), as opposed to at Kel-Tec's expense (as per the owners manual).
(Apparently UPS raised rates during that period, and Kel-Tec departed from the representations in the manual relative to who paid for what.) At that point, some more letter writing followed, and I guess K-T realized that I was serioulsy ticked off and was going to do something about it if the gun was not returned "right quick" at K-T's expense as originally represented when I sent it back to them. At all costs UPS delivered the gun to my front door (at K-T's expense), and I took it to the range.
Put fifty rounds through it with only one or two malfunctions, so I guess it was "fixed." But, as I put it in the case to return home, I noticed that the recoil spring--almost all of it (the bigger one) was hanging out the front of the gun. Took it home and tried to cure the problem. Back to the range: after two or three shots, the springs again came out the front of the gun. At that point, I took it to a dealer who was willing to take the p.o.s in trade on something else. It thus became the only gun of any kind I have ever bought and then, in all honesty, simply dumped. Mine must have been untypical, but it was an absolute, categorical piece of junk. As I said at the beginning of this rant, I have never had a P11. And it's an absolute certainty that I won't ever have one!
Finally, in strict accordance with the instructions in the owners manual, I returned the gun to Kel-Tec. Weeks passed, and I heard nothing. I wrote to see what had happened to my gun --was not told what had been done to it, but rather was informed simply that it would be returned at my expense (after I had agreed to certain things), as opposed to at Kel-Tec's expense (as per the owners manual).
(Apparently UPS raised rates during that period, and Kel-Tec departed from the representations in the manual relative to who paid for what.) At that point, some more letter writing followed, and I guess K-T realized that I was serioulsy ticked off and was going to do something about it if the gun was not returned "right quick" at K-T's expense as originally represented when I sent it back to them. At all costs UPS delivered the gun to my front door (at K-T's expense), and I took it to the range.
Put fifty rounds through it with only one or two malfunctions, so I guess it was "fixed." But, as I put it in the case to return home, I noticed that the recoil spring--almost all of it (the bigger one) was hanging out the front of the gun. Took it home and tried to cure the problem. Back to the range: after two or three shots, the springs again came out the front of the gun. At that point, I took it to a dealer who was willing to take the p.o.s in trade on something else. It thus became the only gun of any kind I have ever bought and then, in all honesty, simply dumped. Mine must have been untypical, but it was an absolute, categorical piece of junk. As I said at the beginning of this rant, I have never had a P11. And it's an absolute certainty that I won't ever have one!
IMHO the P 11 is one of the best buy's for CCW handguns considering the price. There are many better guns out there but they will cost close to twice as much.
My P 11 does the "brass in the face" that Oleg's did. I have learned that shooting it weak
My P 11 does the "brass in the face" that Oleg's did. I have learned that shooting it weak
handed prevents that from happening for some reason.
I have learned that my P 11 doesn't like ball ammo, but Federal's 115 JHP [the BP load] works fine in it & so does Cor Bon's +P 115 JHP. As far as I can tell it is a question of OAL of the cartridge. Except for ball ammo I have not had any malfs that didn't seem operator induced [usually bumping slide stop in recoil with left hand thumb when shooting right handed using two hand grip]. Only mod I have done to the gun is to add the trigger shoe availible from Kel Tec.
I have learned that my P 11 doesn't like ball ammo, but Federal's 115 JHP [the BP load] works fine in it & so does Cor Bon's +P 115 JHP. As far as I can tell it is a question of OAL of the cartridge. Except for ball ammo I have not had any malfs that didn't seem operator induced [usually bumping slide stop in recoil with left hand thumb when shooting right handed using two hand grip]. Only mod I have done to the gun is to add the trigger shoe availible from Kel Tec.