Kel-tec P3AT feeding issues

Mrentropy,

Well...a .38 snubbie isn't out of the question. A Scandium J-frame or LCR is actually my next stop if I cannot get this one running right.


Actually this seems productive for the group: you go through KelTec, I'll attempt the home remedies, and we can north compare results. The design is simple enough I'm pretty sure I can handle the job, and I have the tools.
 
Is the OPs a Gen 1 or Gen 2 P3AT?

I had a Gen 1 that had a lot of similar or other problems. Totally unreliable. Ultimately Kel Tec just gave me a new Gen 2 replacement. I haven't shot it much because it's so uncomfortable to shoot, and I find the .380 just too little gun.

But when I got it I do recall trying it for a few mags and it was reliable.

So, best bet in my opinion is to get a return authorization and prepaid shipping and send it back with a detailed note for them to fix or replace it.
 
"They just sent me a new Gen 2"

Well, I don't know if mine is Gen 1, but I heavily suspect it may be. Sounds like sending it back is a great idea.

As far as the .380 being "enough gun", this is my supercarry, my gun when I don't have a gun. I would not purposly attend a gunfight with it, but it does fulfill rule one of a gunfight. It makes noise, throws lead, and nobody wants to get shot.

Rule 1. "You may not attend a gunfight without a gun. All participants not so armed will NOT be allowed to participate in the gunfight. They WILL however be forced to participate in a shooting, most likely their own."

(This is the only rule)
 
I'm all about home fixes with old guns...but for guns bought new still under warranty, I send 'em back.

MFR's are doing something that annoys the heck out of most gun owners...they WAIT to see if there is a problem...
and how many use the Warranty service before changing it in new ones, or issuing a recall...
Where did they get this lovely idea?? Car MFR's...who do the same dang thing.

So, if you have a new gun under warranty with an issue, Send it In for Repair.
If you don't report a problem, they ignore it. The End User is the Final Tester.

No MFR is really any worse about it, they all do it.
Its why there are 4 Gens of Glock so far...
Its why there are 4 Gens of Smith & Wesson Autoloaders...
2 Gens of XD's...2 Gens of PMR-30's...should I go on?? ;)


Now, a word about how to deal with Customer Service Phone Reps...
1. Write everything that's wrong down BEFORE the call...that way you don't miss an important bit of info!!

2. Be Nice. Be Precise and Concise with the Rep :)
Getting all huffy gets things done wrong. Meaning they'll "Forget" to input things into the notes.
Which can be pretty dang important...as the Notes tell the repair guy what to do.

3. If your Rep is being a jackwagon, or seems too stupid for words, do not get angry...just ask for a Supervisor.
If you ask for one, they MUST Standby/Hold the call and "put their cup up". This also means a wait, usually.
This does mean you have to go thru everything again with the Super...again, stay calm and just report the issues.
(Marlin had this issue in NY, they hired a bunch of Anti-gun twerps to work the phones, with the usual results)

4. That stuff you wrote down earlier before the call, INCLUDE with the firearm in question when you send it.
Computers have also been known to crash and eat the Notes...so a backup is smart.
Either way, at least the repair guy has something to go on when he receives it.

5. Waiting is the hardest part, BUT, don't be totally inactive. Check your email weekly for updates.
Most gun repairs run 4-6 weeks, some longer or shorter due to the current amount of issues.
If it runs over 6 weeks and you've not heard from them, CALL. Kindly request an update.
 
The second generation P3AT and P32 guns were designed because the hexagonal stock that the slides were made from became unavailable.
Otherwise there would be no "2nd generation" guns. This is the only reason for the change. I'm sure that as production has gone forward minor modifications have been made, but the design hasn't changed much. There was nothing wrong with the first generation guns that prompted a design change.
 
The finish could be considered "better."
The Ruger is heavier. This is a trick that Motorola used to use in it's two way radio microphones. They had a big piece of useless steel in them to make them heavier-that's all it did.
The Rugers don't work any better than the Keltecs.

The first generation Keltecs had a conventional looking extractor that is held in place with a pin. 2nd generation guns have a large flat exposed extractor spring that is held on with a screw.
 
That may be true re the Rugers, and point taken.

I still don't see why I have gotten smileys and feeding problems from day one with it though. Clearly it's not just me.

Maybe I used to have a less-than-firm grip. I'd be curious to try it again. My bet though is that I'd get smileys even if I held the grip in a vise.

Here's my explanation, which is pure speculation, and is based on my own experience in Silicon Valley with start-ups etc:

I believe Kel-Tec is a small scrappy young company. Correct me if I'm wrong. Such companies HAVE to be innovative to compete with the big dogs, or they die. They don't have a huge budget for product dev. They take risks in the market.

Kel-Tec made a big marketing deal of the fact the P32 and P3AT were designed from the ground-up with computer simulation. That's what I do for a living. I'm all for it, but I'll admit that it sometimes promises far more than it can deliver. It's no substitute for that old mechanical engineer with the beard and the pot-belly, who chuckles when you suggest doing something that on paper looks great but he knows won't work because (insert obscure fact here learned from decades of experience).

People imagine that there's legions of engineers behind a new product dev like this. Wrong. It's probably 3, *maybe* 6 dudes/dudettes tops.

So these people are VERY innovative and creative. They're the vanguard. But then the big dogs get to sit back and see what actually has traction in the market. When they see little CCW guns like Kel-Tecs actually starting to generate profit, they swoop down and grab that market share. That's a strategic decision made at high levels, and it means 3x if not 10x resources to really cross the t's and dot the i's.

Those final improvements that make a product really, really work, are easy to dismiss as being trivial. Superficially, they are. It's like the old story of the plumber who bills $1,000 for a job that in the end involves just turning a valve. $1 to turn the valve, $999 to know which valve to turn. Same thing here. The little improvements to turn a good idea into a great product are superficially small, but require substantial investment and expertise.

Just my guess.
 
Bill,
Looks to be Gen 2 then.

Mrentropy,
Could be true. If me more serves the flagship P-11 was a magazing equipped rework of the old Grendel pistol, which fed from a blind box magasing like a c96 Mauser.
The P3AT & P32 seem a lot like slimmed down versions of the same. Is this an oversimplification of the situation, or are they basically the same in mechanical function, just with different dementions?
 
I'll be darned. I learn something new every day.

So I got to thinking about the fact of the matter: it's a gun that is worth about $200, and isn'texactly a beauty queen to begin with. So I fluffed, and I buffed, and I squared up those ridiculous sights...but didn't have any HPs laying around to try. I DID however have some Glaser 70gr powRball. Here are the results:

In just one 6rd mag, I had 4 failures to extract. These were not full on double feeds, but the case was either rechambered (1) or just sort of dropped in the open action (3). The original problem was failure to feed, with FTE being unique to the 70gr Glasers.

Immediately afterwards I ran 6, 115gr LRN rounds as fast as I could work the trigger. Recoil was snappy, and cases were thrown well clear.

12 rounds doesn't say much, but the nature of the malfunction does. 70gr bullets are not providing the recoil impulse this gun needs to cycle correctly.
I didn't have time to check for smiley faces, but I assume they were there. Will pick up some HPs and report back. It didn't cycle flat point FMJs well before, so will try that too. Never have tested the thing for accuracy other than practical. Might see what it is actually capable of.
 
Actually there seem to be a number of design changes to increase reliability.

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f87/1st-vs-2nd-generation-p3at-197491/

Due to the rising cost of fuel and materials the Second Generation P-3AT's are now machined from 4140 bar stock in place of the previously used 4140 hexagonal stock.

The P-3AT second generation model differences are:
1) They are 0.4 ounces heavier.
2) There is no longer a detachable recoil spring catch.
3) The extractor and firing pin are now retained by a single button head screw.
4) The extractor spring now utilizes a flat leaf spring.
5) The slide is slightly taller and more rounded then the original P-3AT.
6) The sights are now similar to a standard 3 point buck horn type and are unpainted to allow the operator to high light them as they wish.
7) The grip assembly and magazine catch have been modified to accept these new changes.
Click to expand...
 
Bill,
thinking I might have lost my marbles, I went in search of info, and this is what I found. The Kel tec P11 did fall from the same tree as the Grendel P11, namely it's designer and owner of Kel Tec, George Kellgren. This may also explain how the PMR-30 came to be, as Grendel once marketed a very similar concept as the P-30. You are of correct though Bill, they are sibling designs, but strictly speaking one was not a mere rework of the other.
 
When Ruger copied the P3AT they copied all the problems Owners had to learn to do the 1st gen fluff and buff . They also had smileys Guess Ruger was to cheap to buy a new 2nd gen to copy.With all those problems fixed.
I have 6 Gen 2 KelTec 's and never 1 problem from any of them . No F&B no smileys.
 
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