In January I bought a howa 1500 in 22-250 for a new coyote gun that I plan on getting into. Took it to the range today and was so impressed at the accuracy of this firearm, that I have thoughts on sell/trade my Ruger Hawkeye .308 for one. The Ruger averages 2.5 inch groups at 100 yards. The Howa shoots under an inch! Although the Ruger seems to be better quality with the walnut stock, Mauser action, and a safety that blocks the firing pin. But it just doesn't shoot as well as my Howa. I kinda hate to sell it, but the rifle is also a tool, and if I can get one for whitetail hunting that's more accurate, than wouldn't it make sense? What are your thought?
Keep my Ruger or trade?
- Thread starter Toyoboy
- Start date
2.5" group averages @ 100 yards from most any quality bolt-action rifle seems a bit on the large side and a lot on the "less interesting" side imo. I have many Ruger bolt-action rifles and have always had good luck with them in terms of good, if not always stellar, accuracy and never one that wouldn't average under two inches with factory ammunition. Some Ruger Model 77s, especially older ones in my experience, will benefit from a better than factory trigger pull.
The only experience I've had with a Howa rifle is with the renamed Weatherby Vanguard I have, chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum. I haven't shot it much at this point in time but so far, with factory ammunition, it's always averaged an inch @ 100 yards, sometimes flirting with even smaller three shot groups.
It sounds like your Ruger has some bedding issues; it's the factor I would check first, in addition to scope/mount and action screws being tight to specs.
You might have started a good discussion comparing the .308 and .22-250 cartridges as being which is "best" for hunting coyotes.
Welcome to The Firing Line, Toyoboy.
The only experience I've had with a Howa rifle is with the renamed Weatherby Vanguard I have, chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum. I haven't shot it much at this point in time but so far, with factory ammunition, it's always averaged an inch @ 100 yards, sometimes flirting with even smaller three shot groups.
It sounds like your Ruger has some bedding issues; it's the factor I would check first, in addition to scope/mount and action screws being tight to specs.
You might have started a good discussion comparing the .308 and .22-250 cartridges as being which is "best" for hunting coyotes.
Welcome to The Firing Line, Toyoboy.
MosinNOUGAT
New member
is it possible for you to have both and sell something else if you need to? If you really like them both, then this may be the best thing to do.
Blindstitch
New member
I looked up a few prices and the way I see it I would buy the Howa first and then after shooting decide if the Ruger gets a new home.
In the late 90's I had a Ruger M77 heavy barrel varmint .308. Beautiful rifle- loved to sit around and look at it and show it to friends. The problem was the accuracy. I tried all sorts of bullet weight, powder, case, and primer combinations, that goofy rifle never produced better than a 2.75" group. I called up Ruger and asked what they might be able to do about it. Basically, they asked if it went bang when I pulled the trigger, if so, that was about all they guaranteed. Haven't convinced myself to buy another Ruger since.
That said, my biases are tainted a bit. If that were my Ruger, it would be trading wampum towards another Howa, Mossberg MVP, or CZ.
That said, my biases are tainted a bit. If that were my Ruger, it would be trading wampum towards another Howa, Mossberg MVP, or CZ.
Some of the older Rugers were a crap shoot. Most of the Hawkeyes are more than acceptable for big game. I've not seen one that wouldn't hold near 1 MOA. Not target grade, but fine for big game.
That said, I don't throw money at bad guns. I will try simple DIY fixes, but if they don't shoot they find another home.
Sell it and buy one of the Ruger Americans. Those shoot as well or better than most anything out there.
That said, I don't throw money at bad guns. I will try simple DIY fixes, but if they don't shoot they find another home.
Sell it and buy one of the Ruger Americans. Those shoot as well or better than most anything out there.
I'd fix the bedding problem with the Ruger, if the barrel is okay. Two and a half inches is not good, but even if you don't "fix" it, you may want to consider that at 100 yards, the worst shot is still only 1 1/4" away from the aiming point and that most shots will be within an inch.
Most shots at deer are under 100 yards. Many folks (including me) would rather hit an inch away from where it should have hit with a .308 bullet than hitting a half-inch away with a .224 caliber bullet.
If you're likely to shoot at a deer at 200 yards or more, you probably should try to accurize that Ruger. I've had both good and not so good experience doing that on older 77s.
Most shots at deer are under 100 yards. Many folks (including me) would rather hit an inch away from where it should have hit with a .308 bullet than hitting a half-inch away with a .224 caliber bullet.
If you're likely to shoot at a deer at 200 yards or more, you probably should try to accurize that Ruger. I've had both good and not so good experience doing that on older 77s.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Its practical to sell one so to buy another. As for me? I never found being practical at all pleasing when it comes to my cartridge reloading and gun buying hobbies.
603Country
New member
I haven't had a Ruger yet that wouldn't shoot nice groups if I handloaded for it. Have a 70's 77V in 220 that was and is a tiny group shooter. Had a Ruger Compact in 260 that on one occasion put 5 into one ragged hole. Have a tang safety 77 in 308 with the international full length stock. Shoots under an inch, though I've never really tried to shoot a lot of groups with it. Dad had a tang safety Ultralight in 270 that was a marvelously accurate rifle, once it got a new trigger. My newest, a Hawkeye in 223 was a good shooter, though not great. I had it rebarreled and retriggered, and it's great now.
That said, I guess there are some bad ones out there. Bound to be.
That said, I guess there are some bad ones out there. Bound to be.
I guess I don't understand the question.
You're comparing random groups from different rifles of different calibers. The Ruger is more of a medium game hunting rifle using a fairly powerful round while the HOWA is basically intended for small varmints using a small caliber, low recoil cartridge.
Why would you expect the same accuracy level?
I'm a big fan of HOWA but I'll bet I can pick 10 random shooters and 70% will shoot the 22/250 more accurately than a sporter weight .308(any brand).
You're comparing random groups from different rifles of different calibers. The Ruger is more of a medium game hunting rifle using a fairly powerful round while the HOWA is basically intended for small varmints using a small caliber, low recoil cartridge.
Why would you expect the same accuracy level?
I'm a big fan of HOWA but I'll bet I can pick 10 random shooters and 70% will shoot the 22/250 more accurately than a sporter weight .308(any brand).
Stats Shooter
New member
I was at my local gun club 2 weeks ago testing some ammo I had reloaded. Two other guys were there shooting AR's and one of them was complaining one of them was complaining about how his AR was shooting shotgun patterns. It had a 1:8 twist and he was shooting 55 gr fmj's. His buddy was shooting 69 grain SMK'S. I told him to ask his buddy to try his ammo, he did and groups shrank Dow to under 1".
I have an AR-10 in .308. It doesn't like 165 gr Sierra game kings and only shoots so/so with 168 grain match kings seated to mag length. But 175 gr match kings are 1" at 200 yards using my Federal GMM clone load.
My Point: If you reload, try different bullets, seating depth etc. If not, try the Federal goad medal match ammo in 168 gr AND 175 gr. If it won't shoot around MOA or 1" at 100 yards with it, then likely the gun has an issue.
In fact, many gunsmiths, or rifle builders use Federal Gold Medal match to see if a gun will shoot since that stuff is usually MOA or better if you gun is in fact capable of MOA or better.
the possum
New member
Many years ago my dad was seriously looking at Rugers, and asked me to check 'em out. I read all kinds of reviews & info, and learned that at some point they didn't make their own barrels & sourced them out to a bunch of different manufacturers. Accuracy reports were all over the board, but I saw A LOT of complaints about poor accuracy. If ya got a good one, great. But there were plenty of guys who could only get 2" groups at 100 yards at the very best, using its favorite ammo under perfect conditions.
That would annoy the heck out of me.
Even if I didn't really need any more accuracy than that, that's not the reason I would buy a nice bolt action in the first place. I can get that outta cheap guns, repeaters, milsurps, semi autos, and even my old slug shotgun could get pretty close to that. I'd expect more from a big name bolt action centerfire.
It's really up to you if you wanna live with it or change something. Do you hand load? If not, chances are you could work up at least one decent load that your gun liked. If you don't wanna go that route, and really like the gun, you could rebarrel it. Or, sell it and buy another gun exactly like it. Odds are pretty good in your favor that the second one would be more accurate. And since you're essentially trading even up for an identical gun, you shouldn't be out much money. And then again, you could always sell it and buy something else entirely.
That would annoy the heck out of me.
Even if I didn't really need any more accuracy than that, that's not the reason I would buy a nice bolt action in the first place. I can get that outta cheap guns, repeaters, milsurps, semi autos, and even my old slug shotgun could get pretty close to that. I'd expect more from a big name bolt action centerfire.
It's really up to you if you wanna live with it or change something. Do you hand load? If not, chances are you could work up at least one decent load that your gun liked. If you don't wanna go that route, and really like the gun, you could rebarrel it. Or, sell it and buy another gun exactly like it. Odds are pretty good in your favor that the second one would be more accurate. And since you're essentially trading even up for an identical gun, you shouldn't be out much money. And then again, you could always sell it and buy something else entirely.
Not apples to apples. I had a glass stocked Hawkeye in 280 that shot 5/8" with my reload. One old trick is to put some upward pressure on the barrel at the fore end. I put a piece of credit card on a Rem 700 and it cut groups in half. You can also let someone else shoot it. Thing I never liked about Ruger stocks is they are thin and will punch you in the face. Wondering what ammo you're shooting.
Consistent 2.5 inch groups at 100 yards is plenty accurate for a deer rifle. A deer rifle doesn't need to shoot MOA groups. Neither does a varmint rifle, but it's nice if it does. Mind you, there's no reason to not use a deer rifle for varmints. "I want one.", aside.
It's entirely possible, if you sell the Ruger and replace it with another, the
replacement may not shoot 2.5 MOA with the ammo you have. But you really cannot compare a varmint rifle with a deer rifle.
However, you're comparing apples to oranges. There's more than one Howa1500 in .22-250, so which one you have matters somewhat.
"...shoots under an inch!..." That always depends on the ammo used. And a host of other factors.
It's entirely possible, if you sell the Ruger and replace it with another, the
replacement may not shoot 2.5 MOA with the ammo you have. But you really cannot compare a varmint rifle with a deer rifle.
However, you're comparing apples to oranges. There's more than one Howa1500 in .22-250, so which one you have matters somewhat.
"...shoots under an inch!..." That always depends on the ammo used. And a host of other factors.