Kahr MK9 vs. Sig P232 vs. Walther PPK ?
- Thread starter Sarge55
- Start date
VictorLouis
New member
A better comparison would involve the new P9, rather than the MK9. It's of similar size and weight to the .380s you mentioned.
Having experience with both the Sig and Walther, I would take the Kahr(ANY Kahr) hands down. Forget about the power increase for a moment, and focus on reliability. The .380s, IMNSHO, just don't cut it. The only one that I could trust would be the Beretta 84/85 type. Much larger than the others in its class, with the open slide design. Again, the Kahrs are of equivalent size/bulk, and the P9 puts them into the same weight class.
The Kahrs are one of the finest CCW pistols ever created, balancing size efficiency, weight, simplicity and reliability. The choice should be clear.
Having experience with both the Sig and Walther, I would take the Kahr(ANY Kahr) hands down. Forget about the power increase for a moment, and focus on reliability. The .380s, IMNSHO, just don't cut it. The only one that I could trust would be the Beretta 84/85 type. Much larger than the others in its class, with the open slide design. Again, the Kahrs are of equivalent size/bulk, and the P9 puts them into the same weight class.
The Kahrs are one of the finest CCW pistols ever created, balancing size efficiency, weight, simplicity and reliability. The choice should be clear.
The way this thread is going to go is that the Kahr fans are all going to post that a 9mm is a million times better than a .380 and then they're gonna rave about the Kahr's accuracy. Then they're gonna diss the Walther as being a jammer. Then they're gonna say the Sig is nice but underpowered to be that big.
The Sig fans are gonna post that anything made with the Sig label on it is the finest weapon ever known to man and nothing else in the entire world is ever going to be as good as a Sig. Then they're going to claim that there's never been a Walther made in the States that could hold a candle to a Sig and that they used to own a domestic Walther and took a torch to it out of frustration. Then they're going to say that the Kahr is ugly and not very well finished.
The Walther fans are just going to read this topic and shake their heads and wonder if the PPK is so bad, how could it have sold about 5 million copies and so many people could still be buying them. Then they're just gonna go on to the next topic.
Haven't we done this thread about a zillion times in the last 7 or 8 months?
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Take the long way home...
The Sig fans are gonna post that anything made with the Sig label on it is the finest weapon ever known to man and nothing else in the entire world is ever going to be as good as a Sig. Then they're going to claim that there's never been a Walther made in the States that could hold a candle to a Sig and that they used to own a domestic Walther and took a torch to it out of frustration. Then they're going to say that the Kahr is ugly and not very well finished.
The Walther fans are just going to read this topic and shake their heads and wonder if the PPK is so bad, how could it have sold about 5 million copies and so many people could still be buying them. Then they're just gonna go on to the next topic.
Haven't we done this thread about a zillion times in the last 7 or 8 months?
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Take the long way home...
MurrayNevada
New member
BRAVO, Gremlin, BRAVO!
ShallCarry
New member
Wish the Kahr had been out when I bought my SIG P-230...
8 rounds of 9mm vs. 8 rounds of .380 in a similar size package?
Take the Kahr.
8 rounds of 9mm vs. 8 rounds of .380 in a similar size package?
Take the Kahr.
I have owned all three and I would go with the Kahr 9. A 9x19 is better than 9x17 (380) and in all likelihood kicks less than a straight blow back pistol. The Kahr is simpler to use, accurate, and does not have a lot of sharp edges. I will keep my Walther 32 but my Kahr is a better design. Regards, Richard
Well, I'm a die-hard SIG fan, and *I'll* say the 230/232 are too big for 9x17! <g>
I think the ideal weight/power ratio in this area is the Colt Pocket 9, no longer made. There are two factory NIB on AuctionArms right now, however. If you want .380, try a Pony or a Mustang (see MSA, www.colt380.com).
JNewell
I think the ideal weight/power ratio in this area is the Colt Pocket 9, no longer made. There are two factory NIB on AuctionArms right now, however. If you want .380, try a Pony or a Mustang (see MSA, www.colt380.com).
JNewell
If it wasn't for the caliber, I would recommend a German built PPK. However, since caliber is/has to be a serious consideration, the MK9 is the only way to go. While I'm well aware that more people are killed with a .22 than with anyone other caliber, I'm reminded of an individual who was shot by a .25 and was dead in under five minutes. However, before he died, he strangled his shooter -- killing her. A 9mm (loaded with the proper ammo) has considerable more stopping power than a 380.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
Gremlin,
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps people are able to reach their own conclusions when presented with conflicting information? No wait, you have to be a Walther owner and fan to have that level of discerning judgement. Sheesh.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps people are able to reach their own conclusions when presented with conflicting information? No wait, you have to be a Walther owner and fan to have that level of discerning judgement. Sheesh.
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So many pistols, so little money.
According to gunsmith @ Interarms, the American made PPKs were not manufactured as well as the German made PPKs. I agree. However, a friend has an Iarms PPK that is totally reliable. I do prefer some features of my PPK over the 232: loaded indicator, dimensions, for example. Re the Kahr, a couple of years ago I was checking one out at the shop & asked the dealer to show me how it disassembles. Maybe he had not tired before, but after a few minutes, I told him not to bother. The Kahrs do have tight tolerances, I did fire a K40 and it fired just fine. Drawback: mag only holds 6 rds vs 8 of a Glock 27 and it's pretty heavy. I was going to buy a K40 in polymer whenever they come out (next yr, I'm told) but decided to purchase a Glock 27 and buy the Pierce extenders. Unfortunately in my northern Kalif county, only 2 guns on the CCW; but that's 2 more than much of this state.
AA:
Disassembly of the Kahr is quite simple. 1) remove magazine, rack slide to clear chamber, visually check that chamber is empty. 2) repeat number 1 to insure that chamber really is empty. 3) place your left thumb through the trigger guard and use the rest of your left hand to retract the slide until the slide stop aligns with the disassembly notch. 4) turn the gun over so the right side is facing you, while maintaining the slide retraction. Use the back of screwdriver to gently tap out the slide stop. 5) pull the trigger and pull the slide off to the front.
I can do it in just a couple seconds. It's really quite easy.
Jared
Disassembly of the Kahr is quite simple. 1) remove magazine, rack slide to clear chamber, visually check that chamber is empty. 2) repeat number 1 to insure that chamber really is empty. 3) place your left thumb through the trigger guard and use the rest of your left hand to retract the slide until the slide stop aligns with the disassembly notch. 4) turn the gun over so the right side is facing you, while maintaining the slide retraction. Use the back of screwdriver to gently tap out the slide stop. 5) pull the trigger and pull the slide off to the front.
I can do it in just a couple seconds. It's really quite easy.
Jared
Oh boy, here we go.
I like the P230 and carry it a lot.
Why? Its nice and thin. Fits in the waste
band really comfortably. Can wear it all
the time. Shoots well too, and is reliable.
I think the only 9 that is as thin as most of the .380s, is the Kel-Tec, but I prefer the Sig brand, so I didn't consider it.
Last two issues of the NRA guardian had
encouraging accounts of successful defensive stops with .380s.
I'm not sure that at the close range I
intend to have to use my weapon that
there is a big diff between 9mm and .380.
No street evidence has proven that to me yet.
OK here will come the barage of messages
that 9mm is clearly better, balistic jello
stuff and all.
I'd have to see stats of a large number
of actual defensive shoots with both calibers, at close rang, and
see that .380 failed to stop significantly
less often than 9mm to make a switch. Nobody
has been able to present that info to me.
I've read a lot of stuff on the web, and
its inconclusive.
I like the P230 and carry it a lot.
Why? Its nice and thin. Fits in the waste
band really comfortably. Can wear it all
the time. Shoots well too, and is reliable.
I think the only 9 that is as thin as most of the .380s, is the Kel-Tec, but I prefer the Sig brand, so I didn't consider it.
Last two issues of the NRA guardian had
encouraging accounts of successful defensive stops with .380s.
I'm not sure that at the close range I
intend to have to use my weapon that
there is a big diff between 9mm and .380.
No street evidence has proven that to me yet.
OK here will come the barage of messages
that 9mm is clearly better, balistic jello
stuff and all.
I'd have to see stats of a large number
of actual defensive shoots with both calibers, at close rang, and
see that .380 failed to stop significantly
less often than 9mm to make a switch. Nobody
has been able to present that info to me.
I've read a lot of stuff on the web, and
its inconclusive.
Memphis: I'm afraid that you are incorrect.
Dimensions in inches:
Kahr Mk9 Keltec
width 0.9 1.0
length 5.3 5.6
height 4.0 4.3
http://www.kahr.com http://www.kel-tec.com
The Kahr Mk9 is smaller than the Keltec. The Keltec is lighter and has higher capacity.
Jared
Dimensions in inches:
Kahr Mk9 Keltec
width 0.9 1.0
length 5.3 5.6
height 4.0 4.3
http://www.kahr.com http://www.kel-tec.com
The Kahr Mk9 is smaller than the Keltec. The Keltec is lighter and has higher capacity.
Jared
You own a Sig. You can likely rent both of the others. Fire all 3 and see. I discovered that the 'wasteful' larger dimensions of the P232 served me well when comparison shopping between a PPK and a Sig. It just felt so much better in my hand, and I shot so much better with it.
But .380 v 9mm? Well...we all know which is more powerful. But which is more shootable? I dunno...and its a question for Sarge55, anyway. Just because *I* cannot shoot a PPK as well as a P232 doesn't mean that someone else can't. And in the same vein, just because YOU find a Kahr 9mm to be perfectly comfortable to shoot, he may not.
Test drive the two you don't have.
Mike
PS when I was shopping for my off-duty gun, Kahrs and Keltecs were not options, btw. My department only allows certain guns.
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
But .380 v 9mm? Well...we all know which is more powerful. But which is more shootable? I dunno...and its a question for Sarge55, anyway. Just because *I* cannot shoot a PPK as well as a P232 doesn't mean that someone else can't. And in the same vein, just because YOU find a Kahr 9mm to be perfectly comfortable to shoot, he may not.
Test drive the two you don't have.
Mike
PS when I was shopping for my off-duty gun, Kahrs and Keltecs were not options, btw. My department only allows certain guns.
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
The Silver Bullet 1719
New member
Ummmm, I am not a Kahr fan, I love Sigs, and I like Walthers. But, simply I am going to recommend the Kahr simply because it has a bigger bang than a .380 or a .32
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AK-47, When you absolutely have to kill every mother&%$#er in the room...accept no substitutes.
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AK-47, When you absolutely have to kill every mother&%$#er in the room...accept no substitutes.