Kahr Autos-- Moonies making guns??

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masshooter

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I came across the following newspaper articles while trying to find the Kahr Arms facility address in Worcester. Fact is stranger than fiction. Turns out they are owned/operated, at least indirectly, by "Moonies". Not only that, but ever wonder why the Washington Post is anti-gun, and the Washington Times is pro-gun, well read on...
Despite their good reviews, I don't think I would buy from this company. :( http://felix.vcu.edu/~dbromley/unificationchurchLink.htm http://www.wb56.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/news/03219903.htm/map

Moonies making guns?!
Rev. Moon's son operates Worcester gun plant
WORCESTER -- The father preaches peace, but the son deals in the weapons of war. But for Kook Jin "Justin" Moon, son of self-proclaimed messiah Rev. Sun Myung Moon, that's just fine.
Justin Moon, 28, is chief executive officer of Kahr Arms, a Worcester gun company. His father, the Rev. Moon, preaches peace and love.
"Like most tools, weapons are neither good nor evil," the 28-year-old Moon told The Boston Globe. "That is determined by the user and the purpose for which he or she uses the tool. ... My father is a clergyman, but that does not mean that my occupation makes a statement about the church."
But Tom Diaz, author of "Making a Killing," a book critical of the gun industry, is unconvinced.
"To me it raises a serious question about the sincerity of the church's message," Diaz said. "Is their message world peace, or is it about the ability to make a buck?"
Rev. Moon's Unification Church, founded in 1954, has the stated goal of promoting world peace. He has claimed to have spoken personally with Jesus and Moses, and also claims to have millions of members.
Many critics call the church, which has extensive business operations, a cult, accusing the leadership of employing devious recruitment tactics, brainwashing techniques and methods to dupe members out of money.
Justin Moon, who declined to be interviewed but gave written responses to questions submitted by the newspaper, said his company grew out of his interest in military history and his enjoyment of recreational shooting.
He and church officials both insist Kahr Arms is independent of the Unification Church. A Virginia holding company for some of the Rev. Moon's businesses, One Up Enterprises Inc., said it does not release financial information and did not answer questions about whether it is affiliated with the gun factory.
But the Globe said corporation papers and interviews with ex-church members familiar with the Moon family's business enterprises indicate that Kahr Arms and its corporate parent, Saeilo Inc. of Blauvelt, N.Y., have been components of the elder Moon's commercial network.
"While Moon's name does not appear on any business documents by virtue of his position as the 'messiah,' he has total operational control, especially in a business that's run by his son," said Larry Zilliox, a Virginia private investigator who specializes in the Moon organization. "There's a lot of interlocking relationships."
Church officials insist the business is not affiliated with the church, and say it's also not inconsistent with church teachings for Justin Moon to manufacture guns.
"Unification doctrine teaches nonaggression while supporting the right to defend oneself and defend others against evil," said church spokesman Chris Corcoran. "In this sense, we hold in common with other faiths that it is not a violation of religious principles to invest in legitimate arms industries."
Justin Moon said it is no more ironic for a member of the Unification Church to run a gun factory than it would be for a member of a synagogue or a mosque to operate a defense contractor.
Copyright 1999 by WB56 and The Associated Press.
All Rights Reserved.

Moon Empire Gets a Bang For Its Buck
Unification Church Tied to Arms Maker
By John Mintz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 10, 1999; Page A01
With parts of its sprawling business empire in decline, the Unification
Church headed by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon is finding profits in one of
the least-known of its commercial ventures: making guns.
Moon's four-year-old gun company, Kahr Arms, has prospered amid
glowing reviews for the workmanship of its small but potent pistols. Last
month, Kahr Arms expanded, purchasing the company that manufactures
Tommy guns, fabled in Roaring '20s mob shootouts from speeding black
sedans.
The ties between Kahr Arms and the Unification Church headed by Moon
have received almost no notice, both within the close-knit gun industry and
among church members. The business arm of the church, whose members
believe that Moon is the Messiah and was placed on earth to restore the
Garden of Eden, declined to clarify its involvement in the gun business.
One ex-member said that for years church leaders have tried to obscure
the movement's involvement with Kahr Arms. "They were afraid if anti-cult
groups found out, they'd have a field day," the former member said.
But an examination of corporate records and interviews with experts on
the secretive Moon empire demonstrate the links between the church's
business network and Kahr Arms. Kahr, whose factory is in Worcester,
Mass., is controlled by Kook Jin "Justin" Moon, 28, the elder Moon's
fourth son and slated to be second-in-command of the multibillion-dollar
Moon empire when the 79-year-old father dies. Justin Moon and his
siblings are revered by church members as the Messiah's "True Children."
Some former members and gun industry critics perceive a contradiction
between the church's teachings and its corporate involvement in marketing
weapons promoted for their concealability and lethality.
"I see an irony, if not hypocrisy, that someone who professes peace and
says he's completing Jesus's work also manufactures for profit an
implement with no purpose other than killing people," said Tom Diaz,
author of "Making a Killing," a new book critical of the firearms industry.
"What's the message, turn the other cheek, or lock and load?"
Two years ago a demoralized British member wrote Moon saying he was
quitting partly because of the church's involvement with Kahr guns. "I might
ask if you, as a founder of a religious organization which has 'world peace'
as one of its goals, consider it appropriate to manufacture weapons for sale
on the mass market," the member wrote.
Kahr has been in the forefront of seizing on changes in state and federal
law and marketing a controversial type of small, six-inch-long handgun
whose sales are surging. Guns that size had been around for decades, but
they could shoot only small bullets.
Then in recent years, 31 states passed laws, promoted by the National
Rifle Association, allowing people to carry concealed weapons. Moreover,
in 1994 the government banned manufacture of guns able to hold more
than 10 bullets. Now unable to sell popular models shooting up to 21
bullets, the industry searched for new products to sell.
Gun firms -- with Kahr at the head of the pack -- responded to these
changes by finding a new market niche to exploit -- small but well-made
pistols that fire eight or fewer relatively large 9mm and .40-caliber bullets.
Emergency room physicians blame the spread in the last decade of 9mm
and .40-caliber guns for dramatic increases in more devastating and at
times fatal gunshot wounds. The NRA says the nation is safer because of
the 2 percent or so of adults who always carry handguns, and it cites
studies supporting that claim.
Kahr markets its guns for their concealability, among other things. Its K9
model is "the perfect pocket 9mm," says one ad. "No safeties to fumble
with when the pressure is on."
Combat Handguns magazine praised Kahr pistols as "made like a fine
Swiss watch." Soldier of Fortune said they "pass with flying colors" the key
test of any handgun their size: "close range, high stress, rapid-fire
desperation shooting when all else has failed."
Kahr guns are used by some police officers as backup weapons holstered
on their ankles and shoulders. They have not become popular with
criminals, gun experts say, because of their relatively high cost -- about
$750 apiece -- and because the firm is so new.
Last month Kahr Arms bought into a legendarily lethal product line by
purchasing Auto-Ordnance Corp., the maker of Thompson submachine
guns. The company was founded in 1916 to develop a portable machine
gun that its inventors hoped would win World War I. The "Trench Broom"
arrived too late for the war but was snapped up by gangsters like John
Dillinger and Machine Gun Kelly.
Now Kahr manufactures Auto-Ordnance's line of semiautomatic weapons
and is awaiting a federal license that will allow it to make the fully automatic
machine guns once beloved by gangsters.
One reason for the Unification Church's expansion into the gun business
may be that Moon has often placed money in ventures in which his children
have a personal interest. He bought a Manhattan recording studio for a son
who was a heavy-metal rock musician, and horse farms for two other
children who rode on Korea's Olympic equestrian teams. In the case of
Kahr, the elder Moon was drawn to the gun industry by his sons, who are
avid firearms hobbyists, said one former member.
Justin Moon graduated magna cum laude from Harvard University with an
economics degree in 1992. Then, under his father's orders, he instituted a
boardroom shake-up of the church's many firms, placing Moon relatives in
the key positions, the former member said. Like his father, "the son was
afraid when his dad died, the members would betray the family," the
ex-member said. "He wanted everything in the family's name."
Justin Moon then persuaded his father to invest $5 million in Kahr, arguing
that it would be a profitable venture. the ex-member said. The son, who
has no engineering training, has received five U.S. patents based on his
claim that he invented key technical innovations embedded in Kahr's guns.
The parent company of Kahr Arms, Saeilo Inc., is an offshoot of a cluster
of 15 or so other Moon-affiliated concerns, all called some variation of
Saeilo and all in the machine tool or car repair business. For years
employees at various of the Saeilo firms have been exhorted to meet sales
targets so as not to displease the elder Moon, called "True Father" or
"TF."
David Bromley, a Virginia Commonwealth University sociologist who
studies the church, said members believe the companies "create connection
to the Messiah. . . . They create a community and integrate work and
family." Moreover, he said, while followers privately view their firms and
the church as essentially one entity, in public they often "make fine
distinctions between them."
Asked about the tie between the gun firm and the church enterprises, One
Up Enterprises Inc., the holding company over many of the church's
businesses, said in a statement that it "is not involved with the operations of
Saeilo Inc." Asked to elaborate, One Up said it "does not release financial
information to the public." Saeilo Inc. said its gun venture is profitable.
An examination of the Saeilo firms' data filed with federal agencies, the
telephone company and business reporting firms leaves no doubt that
Saeilo Inc. is connected to the rest of the Moon empire.
The church's One Up has long acknowledged that Saeilo Machinery
(USA) Inc., a machine tool firm, is an outright subsidiary of One Up. In
statements to Dun & Bradstreet and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms, Saeilo Inc. and Saeilo Machinery describe themselves as
"affiliates." The two firms' headquarters share a telephone number at the
same address in Blauvelt, N.Y.
Even as Kahr thrives, some of Moon's other business holdings are in
serious decline. His South Korean companies, which include concerns that
make car transmissions and sell ginseng, are $2 billion in debt, and many
are in bankruptcy. A car plant in China, Panda Motors, has gone under. In
addition, donations from members in Korea and Japan have dropped
precipitously, in part because of economic distress there.
Larry Zilliox, a McLean private investigator who has researched the Moon
business network for a decade, said Moon views enterprises such as Kahr
as critical to his future.
"Moon no longer looks at the church as the core organization," said Zilliox,
who first established the Kahr-Moon link. "The movement's business part
is the enduring part."
Page: 00
PO
Preaching Peace, Making Guns
The Unification Church has financial ties to prosperous Kahr Arms, a gun
manufacturing company. Its Kahr K9, reviewed in a March 1996 Guns &
Ammo article below, is marketed as a small but potent weapon.
SOURCE: Guns&Ammo
 
If you like the guns, who cares?

If you are going to be dictated to by the anti-gun gangsters, why are you even here?
Turn in all your guns and make the Washington Post happy.

Jim
 
Mass not only do they own Kahr they just bought Thompson not to long ago. :(

------------------
We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
I'm not worried about a company's religious views, only it's political ones. Kahr is an American company that supports the 2nd Amendment and we should support it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by masshooter:
I don't think I would buy from this company.[/quote]

Well, your loss.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Keenan:
If you like the guns, who cares?

If you are going to be dictated to by the anti-gun gangsters, why are you even here?
Turn in all your guns and make the Washington Post happy.

Jim
[/quote]

If you weren't at all intereseted in who makes Kahrs, they why are YOU here (reading this post)?

Did I say that I was kowtowing to the anti-gun gansters? Did I even imply that you or I should turn in all of our guns? I said I would most likely not buy from them, but I certainly did not make any recommendations as to what other members should do. This is still a free country (sort of), so go buy from Colt, the Red Army, or whatever other source you see fit. I simply offered this information for the edification of the forum members. A little education can't possible hurt any second ammendment cause, and better educated, literate and informed 2nd ammendment defenders give ALL of us a better reputation. Considering how poorly my previous post was understood, it appears some education would be a plus, although I have to warn you no amount of education will make up for all those years of shooting unjacketed lead ammo. :p

Next time you quote from a pro-gun article in the Washington Times, maybe you'll be prepared if a well informed opponent questions the integrity of the source. Then again, maybe not.

If you own a Kahr, use it and love it, the more power to you. I never said the guns were bad.

BTW, exactly how many Kahrs do YOU own?
 
In case it wasn't clear from the first post, here is a quote from a St Petersburg Times article available at one of the links...

"Moon also established a billion-dollar business empire that today includes, in the United States alone: the Washington Times newspaper, a nationwide cable TV network (Nostalgia), a Connecticut university, a recording studio and travel agency in Manhattan, a horse farm in Texas, a golf course in California, a seafood business in Miami and an Oriental restaurant in Tampa. Abroad, Moon's interests extend from the manufacture of weapons and ginseng in Korea and computers and religious icons in Japan, to newspapers, hotels and a bank in South America."

Hence my reference to Washington Times and their viewpoint. For those of you who think I am advocating a gun ban and turning my $500 weapons in at the local PD for a $50 refund of my own tax dollars... let me make this quite clear: THIS IS AN "FYI".
 
Masshooter - So why, exactly, don't you think you'd buy a Kahr?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Like most tools, weapons are neither good nor evil," the 28-year-old Moon told The Boston Globe. "That is determined by the user and the purpose for which he or she uses the tool."[/quote]
Sounds like a reasonable man. Whatever his religious beliefs, I have to respect a statement like that.

Does this sound familiar?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>big·ot (bgt) n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.[/quote]
 
I own a Kahr K-40 and it's a good carry piece. I really don't care who makes it.
All that matters is that it's a good gun.
I'm not going to concern myself with the background of every firearm I come in contact with. If I did I might miss out on
some very good guns. Why say that the gun is bad because you feel the owners are bad. The gun is great forget about the who makes it. Besides at lease they're pro-gun. :)
 
Masshoter - sorry, that came across a lot harsher than I intended. The first question is still valid, though...
 
Intersting article, but I honestly don't see how someones religous orientation pertains to whether or not we should buy thier guns.

I didn't see anything in those articles that alludes to Moon being anti-gun. I don't think much of the Moonie religion but that's another matter entirely.

And yes, I own one.
 
It's not a question of religious views, it's a question of a cult with the expressed intent of obtaining political power by overthrowing established governments, e.g. the US government. Once the Moonies above ground operations failed they went underground. Hence they operate all manner of companies through intermeiaries. They manufacture guns because it's both profitable and allows them access to what they need to implement their plans. Why do you think they acqired Federal Ordinance, think machine guns.

I'd rather not give my money to a group with an overt desire to overthrow the government of the United States.

------------------
So many pistols, so little money.
 
A whole LOT of folks used to buy CZ75's at scalper prices when the Czechs were still card-carrying-commies. It was/is a great gun!
Let's not forget many folks' fondness for those arms of Norinco manufacture, i.e. the People's Republic of China!

I have two Kahrs and am working toward my third, w/o reservations of any kind. I don't think it brands me a subversive or a religious whacko, IMHO> :)
 
I own a Kahr MK40, love it. I am also a fellower of Yeshua (Jesus) the one and only Messiah[stating my religious belief and practice for clarification, not wanting or meaning to start a religious debate that is for other forums not TFL]

Does it bother me that the "Moonies" own Kahr Handguns. Not really as long as the gun turns out to be a good quality gun.

That is all I am going to say because my two cents worth could quickly turn into 200 dollars worth. :)

Peace,
DaHaMac
 
my Kahr is the best, highest quaility pistol for it's size i have ever shot. it is far more carry friendly than most other guns on the market. the company is service oriented, and builds a high quaility product. they also respond to the wants of the marketplace. how long have we wanted guns like the MK9 and MK40? if you have to have a rich dad that thinks he is the messiah to get weapons like the Kahr. maybe we should sign up some of the designers at S&W or Colt. as for myself, i think we are in much more danger from our government than "Moonies".

------------------
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one.--And they said. Lord here are two swords. And he said unto them. That is not enough. Luke 22-36,38
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
 
Justin Moon is Rev. Moon's son....big deal. I don't adhere to the notion that the son should be blamed for his father's actions. After all, if George W. Bush gets the nomination, I'll vote for him...in spite of his spineless dad's import ban and resignation from the NRA...and while we're on the subject, the Rev. Moon is much more anti-communist than the sitting president of the U.S., Comrade Billy Jeff Klinton. The moonies may have some strange religious beliefs, but no stranger than those of David Koresh. We might find the moonie mass weddings of couples who have never previously met to be distasteful, but the TV-addicted sheep of the U.S. watched "Who wants to marry a millionaire" in HUGE numbers.

Nope. Kahr's ownership doesn't bother me a bit.

Rosco
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Does this sound familiar?
big·ot (bgt) n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.[/quote][/B][/QUOTE]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Morgan:
Masshoter - sorry, that came across a lot harsher than I intended. The first question is still valid, though...[/quote]

You call me a bigot, and then think it's not supposed to come across as harsh? Sheeeesh... ;) That's okay I can take it. :D. I can't claim to be an expert on the moonies, but from what I do know about them, their leaders' beliefs, motives, and tactics are questionable at best. I can't help but wonder how this guy built his billion dollar empire. Did any of the money come from his followers? If so, just how much financial benefit do they receive from their "investment"? Like Tecolote, I'd rather not give them my money. There are plenty of other great gun makers out there.

I certianly support freedom of speech and religion, I never said or implied anything like "down with all moonies". Same principle with Norinco. They have been implicated by the US in arms smuggling schemes.. and that's another topic... but I'd rather not buy new weapons from them, considering there is a very good possibility my cash will go to strengthen the red army. That issue is entirely separate from whether or not the SKS is a good firearm. Of course it's a great firearm, I'm not debating that.

Morgan, you are right, the guy's son sounds like a reasonable man, but then what do you expect him to say to the anit-gun Globe?

I guess my point is this: buying a particular product, gun or otherwise, does not necessarily mean the purchaser agrees with the moral, religous or other beliefs of the owners or the company. But buying that product definitely means the company owners will enjoy the benefit of your cash. You should know who they are and what they stand for before you give them that benefit. In this case, I am not trying to slam Kahr products, or the people who buy them. I am only saying they would not be my first choice because of who makes them. I still support your right to chose otherwise.

Who here would buy from Kahr if those news stories revealed the company was indirectly owned by Sarah Brady or Bill Clinton? Maybe an extreme example, but you get the idea.

Then again, if someone GAVE me a used one, I think I might be able to force myself to accept it. ;)
 
If I cared who made my guns I'd have to sell my Nazi P.08 - No way.

And my Colt Python (anti-gun, gun company)

Etc.

I own a K9 and love it - it's a keeper.

Tom
 
The ONLY gun I would never purchase despite the fact that it may be a wonderful and highly reliable weapon is any gun manufactured under Nazi regime. Not only because of the direct association, but also because of the fact that I wouldn't be able to even touch it knowing that it not might have been but definitely was the weapon to murder innocent people back then. Period.

If I had an opportunity to cheaply buy, say, a SIG Sauer (my, overall, favorite brand) knowing 100% that that particular gun was used to do roughly the same presently somewhere in the world, I would think hard and, perhaps, would have purchased it. But having a handgun associated with something as malignant as the Nazis fully prevents me from doing so.

BTW, I own MK40 -- simply excellent weapon!

[This message has been edited by Emin (edited March 01, 2000).]
 
IIRC, the early European colonists who came to North America had some pretty oddball religious beliefs. FWIW.
 
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