Same here, that K frame I have, the throat area is starting to wear. IMHO that area will wear and age the gun before any frame stretching becomes a factor. There are reports that heavy 357 Magnum loads only, over time, after thousands of rounds, can stretch the frame. It was the reason (I think) the L frame came out into production. Still, the K frame is a very good choice. For a lot of shooters using the K frame the majority of ammunition will be 38 Specials at the range and then occasional 357 Magnums for self defense/woods.
K-Frame Longevity using standard pressure and +P loads?
- Thread starter bricz75
- Start date
highpower3006
New member
I have a first model K frame target from 1901. and while not rated for high pressure loads, has managed be shot enough that there is a bit of wear at the forcing cone. Other than that, it locks up tight and still will shoot better than I can. Not bad for a 113 year old gun.
Jim Watson
New member
A single datum, maybe even the despised anecdote, but...
A shooter here ran 6000 rounds of full charge .357 through a Model 19 along with some unknown but large number of .38s. The forcing cone was in fine shape.
The loads were 160 gr SWCs, not the hot and abusive 125 gr JHP Gunzine Antipersonnel Specials.
A shooter here ran 6000 rounds of full charge .357 through a Model 19 along with some unknown but large number of .38s. The forcing cone was in fine shape.
The loads were 160 gr SWCs, not the hot and abusive 125 gr JHP Gunzine Antipersonnel Specials.
CajunBass wrote: "I would like, just once, before I die, to have the time and the money to shoot enough ammo through a K frame to wear it out."
If you could postpone that day until you did wear the gun out, you would have a very long life. It always amuses me that folks think a gun, doing what it is made to do, will wear out in a few hundred cycles, yet expect an automobile engine, doing what it is made to do, to last years at thousands of cycles (revolutions) a minute.
Jim
If you could postpone that day until you did wear the gun out, you would have a very long life. It always amuses me that folks think a gun, doing what it is made to do, will wear out in a few hundred cycles, yet expect an automobile engine, doing what it is made to do, to last years at thousands of cycles (revolutions) a minute.
Jim
Bill DeShivs
New member
Most people have no mechanical aptitude at all.
Blue Grass
New member
That would be a good question to ask the Man upstairs in the next world.
On the L and N. My understanding is they never experience frame stretching. Historically I think the N frame was chambered for a 38 spl. and called the 38/44 Sportsman. The 38 special was loaded to 357 magnum levels. Sharpe, in his reloading manual gave the instructions but basically a 38 Spl. case had the bullet set farther out to an OAL equal to what became the .357 magnum. The .357 Magnum had a longer case so one of these hot 38 Special loads could not be used in some of the old 38 Special guns that had really small frames. Sharpe went out and shot/killed a Moose with his new cartridge and all of a sudden every guy in North America wanted a 38/44.
Colt later came out with the python. The frame was lighter than a S & W N frame but heavier then the S & W K frame. S & W then came out with the L frame. I don't think the L frame was ever that popular as most folks used 38 specials in their S & W .357 K frames and only used the .357 loads on special occasion. The need of the heavier L frame was viewed as not necessary. I think most L frames were used on State Trooper revolvers.
I might be wrong on a few details but I think that is the general history.
One big problem today is the safety police and fears of lawsuits. It clouds what is or isn't true. I have cut 38 Special cases and .357 Magnum cases and looked at the web area to see if there was any difference. More variation by brand than between 38 and 357. I did this because I came into owning a S & W K frame with heavy barrel that was IDENTICAL in appearance to a .357 Magnum S & W I already owned. The only difference I could see was the stamping was different. I called S & W on the question of whether they were the same frames and cylinders and the only difference was the stamping. Oh boy, trouble, trouble, trouble. All I wanted was the truth but no one knew anything. Finally I got a hold of a production guy who said they gave a better heat treatment of the frames to be used with a .357 Magnum. I figured he was probably just yakking- why would different heat treatments be used BUT....you just can't take the chance so I reloaded the .38 to plus P plus levels, seating out a lead bullet to a little beyond normal 38 special lengths.
Sharpe's reloading manual was very good. He used bullet depth rather than OAL. In other words a flat bottom bullet will occupy more case volume than a boat tail and change pressures, the OAL was okay if you knew the exact bullet but otherwise OAL had some draw backs. On the 38 spl. being loaded to .357 levels, Sharpe had worked out that as the bullet left the shorter 38 case there was slightly more volume in front of the shorter case that dropped pressure a bit. Some of the old stuff was really good. For example lead wasn't just lead, there was hardcast, etc.
Colt later came out with the python. The frame was lighter than a S & W N frame but heavier then the S & W K frame. S & W then came out with the L frame. I don't think the L frame was ever that popular as most folks used 38 specials in their S & W .357 K frames and only used the .357 loads on special occasion. The need of the heavier L frame was viewed as not necessary. I think most L frames were used on State Trooper revolvers.
I might be wrong on a few details but I think that is the general history.
One big problem today is the safety police and fears of lawsuits. It clouds what is or isn't true. I have cut 38 Special cases and .357 Magnum cases and looked at the web area to see if there was any difference. More variation by brand than between 38 and 357. I did this because I came into owning a S & W K frame with heavy barrel that was IDENTICAL in appearance to a .357 Magnum S & W I already owned. The only difference I could see was the stamping was different. I called S & W on the question of whether they were the same frames and cylinders and the only difference was the stamping. Oh boy, trouble, trouble, trouble. All I wanted was the truth but no one knew anything. Finally I got a hold of a production guy who said they gave a better heat treatment of the frames to be used with a .357 Magnum. I figured he was probably just yakking- why would different heat treatments be used BUT....you just can't take the chance so I reloaded the .38 to plus P plus levels, seating out a lead bullet to a little beyond normal 38 special lengths.
Sharpe's reloading manual was very good. He used bullet depth rather than OAL. In other words a flat bottom bullet will occupy more case volume than a boat tail and change pressures, the OAL was okay if you knew the exact bullet but otherwise OAL had some draw backs. On the 38 spl. being loaded to .357 levels, Sharpe had worked out that as the bullet left the shorter 38 case there was slightly more volume in front of the shorter case that dropped pressure a bit. Some of the old stuff was really good. For example lead wasn't just lead, there was hardcast, etc.
I would like to know where my model 10 and both my M&P revolvers stretch on the frame? I am looking at them right now and cannot find anything wrong. My model 10 was made around 1978 and one M&P was made around 1955. My M&P 38 model of 1905 4th change was made sometime in 1923. Enlighten me.
bedbugbilly
New member
OMG! 
All I shoot out of my Smiths is lead that I cast and reload . . . I just checked 'em and the rifling is now all gone! Now they're "smooth-bores" and I'll have to change to shot shells! :roll eyes: 
All I shoot out of my Smiths is lead that I cast and reload . . . I just checked 'em and the rifling is now all gone! Now they're "smooth-bores" and I'll have to change to shot shells! :roll eyes: Jim Watson
New member
I doubt it. The N frame is HEAVY. Why should a cop carry a half pound more on his belt than he has to?
The L frame, beefed up for magnums with the same grips as a K frame, came out in the twilight of the police revolver, as the transition to autos was well under way.
I don't know about a S&W stretching but there was a gunzine article about Colt's study of chambering the Detective Special for .357 Magnum. It said they found that sustained firing of magnums would stretch the frame to the point of the firing pin not reaching the primer, causing misfires.
The L frame, beefed up for magnums with the same grips as a K frame, came out in the twilight of the police revolver, as the transition to autos was well under way.
I don't know about a S&W stretching but there was a gunzine article about Colt's study of chambering the Detective Special for .357 Magnum. It said they found that sustained firing of magnums would stretch the frame to the point of the firing pin not reaching the primer, causing misfires.