Justified or not?

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g.willikers

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A police officer shot and killed a kid who was reportedly armed with a BB gun.
Here's the newspaper report of the incident:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/09/14/Police-involved-shooting.html
No doubt there will be all kinds of backlash from it.
But the real question in my mind is if there's any difference in the situation as to whether the gun was a firearm or an airgun.
Anyone who practices with an airgun is aware of the holes they can make in lots of things, including a person.
What do you all think.
A kid playing outlaw, or a young criminal with a genuine weapon?
Justified, or not?
 
Based on that report, we don't know yet whether it looked like a real gun. I would not form an opinion with knowing that.
 
If you are holding anything that looks like a gun. Than the police have a right to shoot you if you react in any way that they feel is a danger to them. Just my 2C
 
That's right. Without more info, there is no way to tell if it was justified.

Despite being justified, a secondary issue was whether the police actions were tactically sensible.

In general, if it looks like a gun and you point it at officers, that's justified.

But we don't know yet.
 
From the newspaper article:
King, who was one of those fleeing, pulled what police later determined to be a BB gun with an attached laser sight from his waistband. An officer then shot King, police said.
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And airguns are very realistic looking these days.
And to repeat - they can put holes in you.
No doubt if the officer had known what is known now, he probably wouldn't have shot.
But at the time, go know.
Nothing wrong with wanting to survive.
 
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The article says Tyree King pulled the gun from his waistband. Kind died at ~8:22 and had been shot roughly 30 minutes earlier. That would place the shooting around sunset, so lower light conditions.

Not that it was known at the time of the shooting, but the gun had a laser sight on it as well. Googling "bb gun pistol laser" comes up with a LOT of options that look just like the real thing, resembling Berettas, 1911s, HKs, Walthers, Sigs, and S&Ws. It probably did look like a real gun. I didn't see any BB gun pistols that didn't resemble real guns.
 
Attitudes and toys guns can get you killed.

I understand that some police departments are starting a special training program on how to identify and deal with the public's lack of civility and respect for law enforcement. In short, how to deal with a new generation of punk-faced kids with attitudes and real or fake firearms. It's no wonder that our LEO's have to watch their backs more than ever and sometimes mistakes are made. ....... ;)

The other day, I met a young mad and he actually called me, Sir ....... :eek:

Be Safe !!!
 
The wound from a CO2 pellet gun on the human body is not good.
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That in itself would be an inexcusable justification to shoot a child or an adult for that matter.

If the officers reasonably believed it was a firearm then that is appropriate, although tragic. If they believed it was a pellet gun it isn't.


Based solely on the limited informaiton of the article without other information, it appears to be a reasonable (again still tragic) use of force. Officers were chasing robbery suspects in alley. One suspect allegedly pulled a weapon, and was shot. If the evidence supports this story then that would indicate a good shoot.
 
What if the weapon was a knife or club?
There's plenty of dangerous weapons besides firearms that have been deployed by criminals against their victims through out history.
There are youtube videos of wild game as large as pigs being killed with pellet guns.
Check them out before discounting the effects of airguns.
Remember the airgun of the Lewis and Clark expedition?
A hole in yer body is not healthy no matter how it got there.
P.S.
Here's online evidence of the effect of pellet gun wounds:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00039773.htm
Future airgun regulations to follow?
 
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Was it this one:
http://www.pyramydair.com/search-res...0pellet guns
And how could a 13 year old come up with the $100 to buy one?
Why from his previous stick up jobs, of course.
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That seriously looks real, much more in the dark and even more in an alley. With the laser sight whats that $300 - $400 in total?

Kid was a robber.

EDIT: is it me or does the Columbus Chief of Police reminder you of the US Surgeon General.
 
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It does sound like the kid was guilty of at least a couple of felonies. Using a pellet gun to rob people, or to threaten a police officer are unquestionably stupid acts. It sounds like the police officers had every reason to believe it was a real firearm, and acted accordingly.

I am confident the kid could have purchased a real firearm on the street for less than the retail cost of the pellet gun. I wonder why he didn't? Maybe he didn't want to actually hurt someone? Maybe he thought that would give him an easier defense if caught? None of that matters. It is still a tragedy.
 
http://static-21.sinclairstoryline....-large16x9_BetterGunPicture.jpg?1473956746955

Looks real enough to me that I would be afraid for my life if someone were pointing it at me.

Many, many air guns now look very real. Some in the drug trade have taken to them for daily carry as they look threatening enough to be the real thing but if they get caught with them there is no FIPOF or CWL or some other firearm charge which can be stiff.

There have been quite a few cases, especially in the last few years of people killed by the police doing dumb things with air guns. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Air guns do kill a number of people each year. Many more people lose eyes and suffer other permanent injuries These are mostly accidents, but not all.
 
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There have been quite a few cases, especially in the last few years of people killed by the police doing dumb things with air guns. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Last year, in my state, a man was shot and died, because he was throwing ROCKS at the police. After all the reviews, they just recently ruled, the police "acted within the bounds of existing law".

IF it looks like a gun, no matter WHAT it really is, the police are going to react as if it were a gun. EXPECT THAT.
 
It doesn't seem as if there's enough information at this point to reliably say whether the shooting was justified or not. And I'm sure we're all saddened by the fact that yet another child has been killed. No one wants children to be killed, no matter the circumstances; it's an affront to our internal morality; at least it is to mine.

But I just don't see how a cop is supposed to accurately determine whether a kid has a gun or a BB gun when many of them look a lot like this:

http://images.airgundepot.com/ay/airgundepot/beretta-px4-storm-bb-pellet-pistol-5.gif

My buddy picked one of these up last year, and at first glance I thought it was real. It was exactly the same size as my real PX4, and until he put it in my hands I couldn't tell the difference. I can only imagine what a police officer would be forced to assume if you pointed this thing at him.

Note: I'm not in any way promoting the idea that BB guns should be regulated any more than they already are. Simply stating the fact that it is impossible to visually discriminate between a real PX4 and a replica.
 
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- If you run from the cops, your odds of being shot skyrocket.
- If it's dark, your odds of being shot skyrocket.
- If you pull an object from your waistband, regardless of what projectiles it fires, your odds of being shot skyrocket.

It is ridiculously tragic that this kid was shot. But from what limited information I have seen, I don't know how the cop would know it was a BB-gun.

What can I learn from this awful incident? I can teach my boys to respect police officers and the law. I can teach them that if they ever did end up in trouble, not to run. And most importantly, firearms are not toys.
 
As regards it being a BB gun, the old mantra that it will take your eye out is not baloney. Having taken Intro Ophthalmology and Physiological Optics as a post doc, I wouldn't want one of them crashing through my eye.

That is grievous bodily harm.

But we don't know enough yet. Is the story true? Blah, blah.

However, if you point a realistic replica weapon at someone in a manner which seems to indicate such a threat, you are to blame.
 
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