justice in America

T

targetshootr

New member
Sometimes you have to wonder what constitutes crime. People who shoot up campuses, serial killers, child molesters are considered to be the worst of the worst and dealt with severly. As they should. And then there are crimes of the elected. The damage they do is often worse by a factor of tens of thousands but punishment often never comes to pass. And minor infractions can be dealth with out of all proportion to an ordinary citizen.

I guess the point of this is to pose a philisophical question; What exactly is justice and are political crimes always the safest? Does being farther up the ladder mean your odds of paying the piper are proportionately less? Or more? Are the connections and resources that come with status the reason? Or are enemies with resources? And why doesn't every criminal defense lawyer pose those kinds of questions?
 
Responding to someone being murdered or injured is a base response for humans. It is very easy to personalize and to identify victims. The need for self preservation is very strong.

For something like Enron manipulation of energy prices in California, it is more vague, the information is harder to assess, and it is a rational anger as opposed to the gut response.

Add in the the guns are rarely smoking and that it is difficult to quantify the damage done.. how do you compare a life versus stealing $10 each from 10 million people?
 
Justice in America is dispensed according to your net worth perhaps not in all
cases but enough to be disturbing.


how do you compare a life versus stealing $10 each from 10 million people?
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Partly true however to assume that stealing $10 from that many people does
not cause great harm is simply naive because in modern greedy America it
is more then just one company doing so. It ends marriage's, causes suicide,
etc. We need to rethink our priorities as a country in my opinion we are on
a bad path.
 
$10 each from 10 million people? You are a fool! Many employees had their life savings invested in that company and they took it all. They took ALL of their money and fired them. They didn't steal $10 from people they stole 10's of thousands from each employee. Maybe a little research before you run your mouth again, huh?
 
There aren't 10 million Enron employees either, spanky.

You need to relax and realize it was an obvious hypothetical question.
 
I think the founding fathers wrote "all men are created equal" with tongue in cheek. They probably knew all along that proposing something so lofty doesn't mean that all men will be treated equally. Heck, they held the deed to certain people. And the government they left us, while it's as good as it gets, practically grants asylum to an entire criminal class.
 
yeah...

I am aware that their weren't 10 million Enron employees. I'm also not dumb enough to compare what they did to a hypothetical situation where a company steals $10 from 10 million people. Their is absolutely no comparison. They took everything from their employees. Don't compare apples to hypothetical oranges.
 
I am aware that their weren't 10 million Enron employees. I'm also not dumb enough to compare what they did to a hypothetical situation where a company steals $10 from 10 million people. Their is absolutely no comparison. They took everything from their employees. Don't compare apples to hypothetical oranges.
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Oh, so Enron is only known for what they did to their employees and NOT for energy price manipulation in California, which I even referenced!? I have to disagree with gusto to your second sentence.

The point isn't about enron, it is about whether prosecution of white collar crimes on a massive scale is pursued as wholeheartedly as individual violent crimes.
 
I do believe the phrase all men are created equal meant a vairety of things, equal before the law- as in each man (or woman) is judged according to thier own actions. equal in terms of oppurtunities- you can be anything you want if you work hard enough.
Maybe I am being optimistic.

As for Justice, I do not believe in it this side of the grave. I have worked in many facets of the Criminal Justice System: Investigations, Corrections and now in Parole and finding "fair and equitbable punishment for an infraction of the law which supports the common good" is a big myth. I work from the angle of Chaos vs. Order. I like to think I am on the side of Order, trying to keep Chaos (and in my humble opinion evil actions of persons) to a minimum.

Who knows, I just keep trudging along.
 
And today brings us some honest-to-god irony. Or maybe it's another tragedy but the prez will be offering his condolences to the victims of one criminal who, let's face it, was an amateur in comparison. There must be a philosophy of some sort that addresses such incredible weirdness because the actions of neither make any sense, anymore than the penalties they've paid.
 
Yes!!!

Enron is primarily known for what they did to their employees. And if you want to get into energy manipulation they still stole a lot more than $10 from 10 million people. Give it up.
 
Look up the word "Primarily" then look up the word "Only" in the dictionary. I'll wait. The P comes after the O, btw.

I suppose if I referenced Enron as a company that starts with E, your panties would twist completely off as you furiously type that THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE KNOW FOR YOU ARE A FOOL!!!!11!

Do you have a comedy tour coming up? I'd like to see it. You are comedy gold.
 
I would like to know what constitutes a "political crime". It is my general understanding that we, as a free society, are not much inclined to imprison people for their politics. If the "political crime" is tyranny, the eventual remedy of last resort is revolution.

Best Regards,
Richard
 
Look up the word "Primarily" then look up the word "Only" in the dictionary. I'll wait. The P comes after the O, btw.

I suppose if I referenced Enron as a company that starts with E, your panties would twist completely off as you furiously type that THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE KNOW FOR YOU ARE A FOOL!!!!11!

Do you have a comedy tour coming up? I'd like to see it. You are comedy gold.
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Speaking of panties in a knot...........lol
 
wow sec!

Thanks for the mature response!:rolleyes: It's obvious you are on here for the sole purpose of being a smartass. You make unfounded remarks and vague comparisons and you get mad when someone calls you on it. Do yourself a favor and grow up. Maybe then you can get back on TFL and try and have an intelligent conversation.
 
I would like to know what constitutes a "political crime".
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That's why I started this thread, to figure out when is a crime not a crime. If a politician starts a huge war for misleading reasons and tens of thousands are killed, where does it stand compared to run of the mill killers like the guy at VT. Is one ok because it's wrapped in platitudes and the other is bad because mental illness was involved? We can say for certain that the magnatude of the killing is not a factor even though it certainly should be. Same for Enron types of crimes. I submit if a criminal has the resources and a large enough base of support, nothing called 'crime' is ever committed.
 
Thanks for the mature response! It's obvious you are on here for the sole purpose of being a smartass. You make unfounded remarks and vague comparisons and you get mad when someone calls you on it. Do yourself a favor and grow up. Maybe then you can get back on TFL and try and have an intelligent conversation.
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I've been getting more and more down to your level as you seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

Re-read my initial post. I was trying to come up a situation where a crime was being committed and the victims individually were nearly unaffected, but en masse the crime was quite significant. I was also very specific in which type of crime I was referring to. I'll include the post here for your convenience:

Responding to someone being murdered or injured is a base response for humans. It is very easy to personalize and to identify victims. The need for self preservation is very strong.

For something like Enron manipulation of energy prices in California, it is more vague, the information is harder to assess, and it is a rational anger as opposed to the gut response.

Add in the the guns are rarely smoking and that it is difficult to quantify the damage done.. how do you compare a life versus stealing $10 each from 10 million people?
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Obviously I wasn't discussing the fact that Enron basically destroyed their employees lives. In that situation, the victims are not faceless, and the personal impact is huge.

Your first comment was uncalled for. Your subsequent ones have been factually incorrect and inappropriate. You began with name calling and then continued attacking me without listening. Now, you play the victim and I can't defend myself?

You are still amusing, though. Now complaining about me be vague when that was the entire point? HA!


And back on topic:
A crime is a crime. A political crime doesn't exist, but there are situations where a person can abuse his position of political power to commit crimes that otherwise he would never be able to commit. Take Duke Cunningham for example.
 
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