Wayne, the same can happen here in Virginia. A private seller can insist on going through an FFL in his/her state to transfer a gun to a private buyer in his/her state. They tend to make that clear in the conditions of the sale right up front. I would still consider that a private sale too. However, you have to account for some variations here. For one, the seller/dealer is not in my state, so his transaction would not be considered a "private sale" in my state because we are not both private citizens of Virginia. Also, he didn't say he requires an FFL transfer in his private sale listing. I don't see any legal loopholes that work in his favor here.
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Just trying to help....
- Thread starter noelf2
- Start date
Wayne, the same can happen here in Virginia. A private seller can insist on going through an FFL in his/her state to transfer a gun to a private buyer in his/her state. They tend to make that clear in the conditions of the sale right up front. I would still consider that a private sale too. However, you have to account for some variations here. For one, the seller/dealer is not in my state, so his transaction would not be considered a "private sale" in my state because we are not both private citizens of Virginia. Also, he didn't say he requires an FFL transfer in his private sale listing. I don't see any legal loopholes that work in his favor here.
Andrewsmith1
New member
My advise is to stay out of his business unless you are buying. If your are buying make him ship it to an FFL to protect yourself. I am not a lawyer and as a result, I do not give out legal advise. It could come back to bite me if I gave out the wrong information. There are times when the opportunity to provide helpful information presents itself (someone new to guns asking for basic information). There are far more times when I prefer to stay away from the situation so I don't end up getting drug into any legal matters that may occur in the situation.
Evan Thomas
Inactive
Short answer, no, if you mean "buy it and take it home with you." If someone transfers a gun to a resident of another state, the transaction must go through a licensed firearms dealer in the buyer's home state. You could drive to another state and buy a gun, but it would then have to be shipped to an FFL in Arizona before you could legally take possession of it.
Ignition Override
New member
What if you had bought a gun from him at a gun Show in your state, and the transaction was described as "a personal sale"?
It might not be legal to allow a personal sale when a guy is already an FFL, or do most southern states distinguish between:
A) a personal sale by an FFL at a Gun Show, and-
B) a sale by the same guy, which is characterized as "on the business side" at a Gun Show?
It might not be legal to allow a personal sale when a guy is already an FFL, or do most southern states distinguish between:
A) a personal sale by an FFL at a Gun Show, and-
B) a sale by the same guy, which is characterized as "on the business side" at a Gun Show?
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Never assume.Noelf2 said:True that. He would have to go through a Virginia FFL to sell it so a Virginia citizen. Since he makes frequent trips to Virginia, my assumption was that he has a partner/associate here in Virginia that can do the NICS and transfer. None the less, it's not a private sale.
I do not think you were out of place in raising the question. His response would make me want to never do business with him. I wouldn't worry about him, but the unfortunate fact is that the federal laws pertaining to interstate sales of firearms apply to both the buyer and the seller. So this guy may be (knowingly or unknowingly) engaging in illegal sales that could make any buyer in Virginia an instant felon.
I think it's worth reporting to Armslist, as suggested above.
I don't agree with the laws, either, but I would report it in the hope of preventing a dirtbag from luring uninformed buyers into committing felonious acts.Nickel Plated said:I do not agree with or support these lawa, as such see no reason why I should help enforce them.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
We're still discussing a seller from one state offering guns for sale in another state, right? If so, what some "southern states" (or any other states) might or might not allow or prohibit doesn't matter, because interstate sales are subject to federal law. Federal law for interstate sales of handguns are VERY clear -- the firearm MUST be transferred to the buyer through an FFL in the buyer's state of residence.Ignition Override said:What if you had bought a gun from him at a gun Show in your state, and the transaction was described as "a personal sale"?
It might not be legal to allow a personal sale when a guy is already an FFL, or do most southern states distinguish between:
A) a personal sale by an FFL at a Gun Show, and-
B) a sale by the same guy, which is characterized as "on the business side" at a Gun Show?
Period.
I know several FFLs. They keep very careful records, and firearms in their personal collections either have never been entered into their business's bound book, or have been logged out to their personal ownership. The range where I shoot is also a gun shop. The range rental guns are not for sale and are not part of the sales business. Each one has a hangtag (when it's not actively being rented and shot) indicating that it is a rental firearm that is the personal property of the range owner. That way, when the BATFE comes around for an inspection, they can see which guns are not in the bound book and they won't waste time asking to see the entry for the Ruger 10/22 in the rental rack.
An FFL can't just play fast and loose with calling a firearm "personal property" one day and "business property" another day. Each time it changes from business to personal or from personal to business, it requires an entry in the bound book. Certainly, an FFL can own personal firearms, and they can sell their personal firearms. When they do so, they are subject to the same laws and regulations that you and I are subject to.