Just trying to help....

N

noelf2

New member
I frequently browse Armslist for gun stuff in my state, and I ran across a "private sale" listing where the seller had two revolvers for sale, but lived in another state and comes to Virginia every week or so. I replied to his ad and told him that it might be illegal to do a private sale of handguns in Virginia, in case he didn't know he could be committing a felony. Really, I was only trying to keep him from trouble. He replied that he is a dealer. I replied that he would have to do NICs check then, and that might annoy those interested in a private sale, as was advertised. Boy did he then proceed to rip into me, name calling and such. He had other guns for sale in his home state, and they were listed as dealer sales. So, should I have just kept my mouth shut? :confused:
 
You must have just noticed that the internet has no shortage of arrogant and rude people.
And less than well informed.
Those attributes seem to be directly associated.
Just ignore it and carry on.
The next guy might actually appreciate it.
Or even elaborate on the subject to benefit us all.
 
He replied that he is a dealer. I replied that he would have to do NICs check then, and that might annoy those interested in a private sale, as was advertised.
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You are both wrong. He cannot sell a handgun across state lines as a private sale. Even as a dealer (FFL), it would have to be transferred through a VA FFL. The out of state dealer doing a NICS check does not make the interstate sale of a handgun legal.
 
True that. He would have to go through a Virginia FFL to sell it so a Virginia citizen. Since he makes frequent trips to Virginia, my assumption was that he has a partner/associate here in Virginia that can do the NICS and transfer. None the less, it's not a private sale. Anyway, his response to me was that he knows his business and has checked the laws, and suggested I do the same (in so many words, sans the names calling).
 
It might be worth it to report him to Armslist and let them figure it out. They may decide that he's kosher and do nothing -- or you may stop someone from criminal activity, dealer or not.
 
Yeah I thought of that too. Problem is that Armslist is mostly "hands off". They do post the ATF 800 number for reporting crime though. Figured I'd call that tonight if it's still listed this evening. Problem is, no crime has been committed unless he sells a gun here.
 
The facts: The seller is a dealer and is NOT in Virginia but is offering to sell guns to folks that live in Virginia.

Just curious, would the buyer of one of his guns in Virginia face legal problems too?
 
Dale I think the buyer could be in trouble if doing a private purchase from someone that he/she knows is not permitted to do a private sale in Virginia, and in this case, the seller openly admits he is not a Virginia resident. I think this dealer is just doing a bait and switch act. Private sale vs. must go through a Virginia FFL, or, is selling here illegally. Another possibility is that this is the Feds and they are setting up some sort of sting operation (out comes the tinfoil hat).
 
IANAL nor an FFL, but if he is selling as a dealer he must record the transaction in his book and I think selling to you would would be illegal so maybe he's one of those unscrupulous guys we'll be seeing on 60 minutes.

If he's willing to sell to you as a private seller he's again trying to skirt the law unless, like stated above, he has a FFL connection in your state. If not, you're best to stay away.
 
Thank you, Armorer,

Even a class 01 FFL in one state cannot sell a handgun directly to a resident of another state, NICS or no. Otherwise, those poor sods in Maryland would besiege Virginia gun shows.

The facts stated, and the guys reaction, stink to the heavens. This guy is either a criminal or an MAIG stooge.
 
I personally wouldn't bother reporting him. I do not agree with or support these lawa, as such see no reason why I should help enforce them. By all means steer clear of the situation to keep yourself out of trouble, but if the feds want to enact these stupid laws, it falls on their shoulders to enforce them. I have no intention of being their rat.

And if the guy is not willing to take some friendly advice or atleast be curteous about it. Let him dig his own grave so to speak.
 
The facts: The seller is a dealer and is NOT in Virginia but is offering to sell guns to folks that live in Virginia.
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And that is perfectly legal IF, as stated above, the transfer goes through a VA dealer.
 
And that is perfectly legal IF, as stated above, the transfer goes through a VA dealer.
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Correct, but he advertises a "private sale", which by definition would not require a transfer by a Virginia FFL.
 
Exactly.

Since he's a resident of another state, it's illegal for him to do a private sale to a Virginia resident. It makes no difference that he's a dealer himself; the sale would be legal only if it goes through a VA FFL. If he's proposing a sale to take place in a state where he's not a resident, without benefit of a local FFL, the technical term for such a sale would be "felony."
 
Since he makes frequent trips to Virginia, my assumption was that he has a partner/associate here in Virginia that can do the NICS and transfer. None the less, it's not a private sale.
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It's still a private sale if it's not going through his books. It's just a private sale that has to go through a FFL. Some sellers in FL will require that their private sale in state has to go through a FFL. It's still a private sale, because the transaction is still conducted between two private parties.
 
All he has to do is ship it to an FFL in your state. If he's a dealer (which I doubt) this is par for the course. You pay shipping and your FFL's fees.
 
If he's proposing a sale to take place in a state where he's not a resident, without benefit of a local FFL, the technical term for such a sale would be "felony."
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Yep, that's what I told him, and he proceeded to chew me a new orifice.

All he has to do is ship it to an FFL in your state. If he's a dealer (which I doubt) this is par for the course. You pay shipping and your FFL's fees.
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Skans he says in his listing that he comes to my state once a week. Sure he can still go through a VA FFL to transfer, but that's not a private sale. I believe he is (or works for) a dealer in another state as there are other armslist listings by him in that state, and they are listed as Dealer sales.
 
You did the right thing. I don't even see why he'd take the risk of doing something like what he is proposing. If the guy has an FFL and does a lot of business in your state, he would surely know an FFL that might even handle the paperwork for just the $5 NICS fee, or at least at a reduced price.

For all you know, the gun could be stolen and he's looking to dump it off on someone. Maybe not, but FFL's and people working for FFL's typically don't mess around with this stuff - it's not like he's even saving any money!
 
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