Just the movies or for real?

Those are obviously not the original sights on that 1912! No wonder they 'blew off'.

I have seen a uniformed patrol officer hold his pistol sideways (on COPS), but this same officer was wearing a thigh rig on patrol! Very un-impressive.

The evolution of the sideways hold is interesting:
It was first used by the 'shield man' on entry teams. The shield is held in the left hand/arm, and the window is in the center. Thus the only way to see the sights is to hold the gun sideways, with a considerable bend in the elbow. (Some teams had the shield man use both hands on the shield, but most guys did not like that.)

The gang bangers saw that, and thought it was really "TACTICOOL", so they started doing it.

Then, some cops picked it up, along with some GSC!

Remember, most bad guys are verticle targets, so a gun recoiling vertically may stay on (some part of) your target. A gun recoiling sideways goes off target.

GSC = Gun Store Commandos
 
Read about CAR here...

You can read about CAR here; rather than me trying to explain it.

http://www.civilianarmstraining.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143:center-axis-relock&catid=38:fp-rokstories

From 15 yards out you are basically in a near Weaver stance. As you get closer you are more and more bladed. When at contact distance you a in a fully bladed position. Basically for a right handed shooter this brings the gun to eye level with your head turned nearly 90 degrees to the left and the gun above and to the right of your left shoulder. See the pictures in the link above for a better understanding. For left handed shooting it is the reverse. One great advantage I found is for cross eye dominance; my dominant left eye is lined up with the sights and the right eye is blocked by my right hand. When changing to shoot left handed, my RIGHT eye is aligned with the sights and my left (dominant) eye is blocked by my left hand. Thus I do not need to close one eye with shooting. I have found that my accuracy is just as good as with a traditional Weaver stance.

Also, this method helps with weapon retention in contact distances. It is just one more method in my arsenal not the only method I use.
 
If CAR works for you, great.

But why not drop the right elbow, and use the Weaver? It would also get the gun further away from your face, and mean that every shot you fire is practice for your fighting stance, rather than two different stances.

Not arguing, justr trying to understand.
 
One just needs the proper gear,,,

Like these,,,

attachment.php


Aarond
 
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According to this and a few other sources, the side grip was effective against throngs of people, using the recoil to spread shots laterally along a wide field of fire:

During the first half of the 20th century, soldiers used the side grip for the express purpose of endangering throngs of people. Some automatic weapons from this era—like the Mauser C96 or the grease gun—fired so quickly or with such dramatic recoil that soldiers found it impossible to aim anything but the first shot. Soldiers began tilting the weapons, so that the recoil sent the gun reeling in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, enabling them to spray bullets into an onrushing enemy battalion instead of over their heads.
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I suppose it would also help you more easily police brass if, by being turned on its side, your weapon would eject straight up instead of out to the side.

Oh, geez, aarond, please tell me that is not a real product:eek:
 
Oh, please! We all know where this crap came from!
Everyone is just being too politically correct to admit
it! I think the poster with the "home-boy" sight ad
is closest to reality on here! Good grief! :D
 
I just hope that if I ever do get into a shootout with a thug - the side grip is the only thing he knows...

It's actually a pretty lazy grip though, I am betting that there probably is a 50 degree variance with how different criminals hold the pistol with some of them holding more 45° and even some holding it a few degrees South of horizontal.
 
"Those are obviously not the original sights on that 1912! No wonder they 'blew off'." [Sleuth]

Actually the patina on the pistol matches the patina on the sights, and the sights are of a very high quality which is consistent with a Steyr product.

It may have more to do with the 9mm para ammo used, rated at 460 ft lbs and 1300+ fps. Sharp recoil.
 
Hello stressfire,,,

Oh, geez, aarond, please tell me that is not a real product
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I surely hope not,,,
But I have a friend who glued some old sights on his Glock,,,
They only stayed on for a few rounds but he did get some weird looks at the range.

Aarond
 
Don't know about that. I'd never try it.


I have dual wielded 1911's before...total aesthetics. Lol

SA 1911 - XD45 - G21sf - G22 - G27 - Hk USP 40 - SIG P226 E2 - Browning High-Power - S&W M19-3 - CZ-82 - S&W 642 - Remington 870
 
Seaman, the patina may match, but I have never seen a M1912 with adjustable sights, and I have been collecting and studying military handguns since ....... well, a long time. My 1912 has fixed sights, as do all the ones I have ever seen.

I would guess those sights are circa 1970, most likely Bo Mar's or a knockoff.

And the quote about holding full autos sideways is clearly written by someone who has never fired a Grease Gun (M3 or M3A1), or studied history. The M3 was developed in the 1940's, and has a very slow (400 RPM) rate of fire. It is very controllable.
The Schnellfuer ("Fast Fire" or full auto) Mausers are a different story, particularly in the hands of untrained troops. The down side to firing a full auto sideways, ejection port up, is the chance that an ejected case will land back in the ejection port, causing a stoppage.

But doing so is awkward, more awkward than simply moving the gun (held normally) in a sweeping motion.
 
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"Seaman, the patina may match, but I have never seen a M1912 with adjustable sights, and I have been collecting and studying military handguns since .......well, a long time. My 1912 has fixed sights, as do all the ones I have ever seen." [Sleuth]

Sleuth, you are right about that, I have never seen anything like it either, was the reason I acquired it (thought some officer must have put in a special order) and I've been collecting a long time too, have stuff back to the time of Vespasian, so I know a little about antiquities, relics, and such.

The Steyr M1912 handled the 9mm para well, except for losing its sights. Also had the front sights blow off a couple of WW1 era Walthers.

That same 9mm ammo jammed up my Walther P99 and Beretta 92.

Something to be said for old steel.
 
Oh, geez, aarond, please tell me that is not a real product
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Well, no. They're not. That didn't stop the Richmond (Va.) police department, and the City Council from grabbing the ball and running for daylight with it.
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ROFLMAO, all I can say is....wow....

I have dual wielded 1911's before...total aesthetics.
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As have I, and I gotta say, I did more damage to the trees next to the target than the target itself, what's The Punisher's secret exactly? Must be the compensators
 
KMAX

Just the movies or for real?
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Two things I see in movies and TV shows which have become "pet peeves" are:
1) When someone opens a S&W revolver, spins the cylinder to check to see if it is loaded and there is a sound like you hear when you spin the cylinder on a Colt SAA with the hammer at half cock and the loading gate open. S&W cylinder spins silently when the cylinder is released out of the frame.
2) When someone walks around holding a handgun right by their face (usually in anticipation of an armed confrontation) so the camera can get there "acting" expression and the gun in the same shot. Oh yea, their finger is on the trigger too.
 
Another peeve.

Mello.
Thanks for pointing out the cylinder spin clicking. Never really gave that much thought but have seen it. Another peeve is silencers on revolvers. Another is in "Full Metal Jacket" where Clint Eastwood carries the AK47 when the two platoons are competing to get to the bear pit first. I can accept the use of it in the scene where he live fires to introduce the troops to the favored weapon of the enemy, but not after that. Still really like that movie. Will probably be watching for more phony theatrics involving firearms.
 
Indeed

Yes. I was talking about Heartbreak Ridge. Love both movies and watch them both often enough I shouldn't get the titles confused, Thanks.
 
there is a method of one handed shooting where your hand is slightly canted to where it rests naturally. It takes more muscles to hold your hand straight one handed than it does to have it slightly canted to the left(for a righty).
 
OK another movie pet peeve, seen over and over in "U.S. Marshals". An on duty officer, chasing a escaped murderer, draws his pistol and has to CHAMBER A ROUND!

In fact, in 'the drainage tunnel' Tommy Lee Jones does it 2 or 3 times with the same gun!!!

But then, movies are magic!!
 
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