Hey, no problem. It's just how I'm made. I've got a daughter, and as much as I desperately want to be around for her as she grows up, there's a big part of me that wants her to know that her daddy would do the right thing in a time of emergency, and not just the convenient/safe thing.
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Just so I don't go not knowing..
- Thread starter Tatsumi67
- Start date
scorpion_tyr
New member
This situation would come with so many variables that it's impossible to list them. My best answer is to just do what seems right at the time. If the BG is right next to me with the LEO across the room I'm probably going to hit the floor. If the LEO is in front or beside me I'm probably going to draw and try to position myself where I can take aim at the BG without even looking like I'm aiming at the LEO. Then I'd just keep my mouth shut.
Once again... it's all about what seems right at the time. I wouldn't take a yes or no answer and run with it in every similar scenario.
Once again... it's all about what seems right at the time. I wouldn't take a yes or no answer and run with it in every similar scenario.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Depends on lots of variables. The OP was "something going down." That covers a lot of territory. As for Mom and Ganny and daughter, WHAT is going down? Who am I with? What is the danger to me and my family? Just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea.David, Please read post #7. Are you saying that if someone elses mother or grandmother or daughter was in imminent danger and you were able to stop the threat that you wouldn't?
What you DO is, you take cover from the bad guy's fire yet try and keep an eye on the cop. Let him/her take first crack at the problem. Don't let them know you're armed. But damned well get ready to step in if the cop is losing or runs dry because it's nearly certain that a cop-killer will try and eliminate witnesses and you WILL be the next target.
As a bonus, if you can keep a wounded or ammo-less cop from getting "finished off", so much the better.
If you have to let the cop know he/she has a potential ally, calmly but clearly say "I'm a CCW permitholder - do you need help!?" All cops have the ability to deputize citizens during an emergency - it's extremely rare but it can happen.
As a bonus, if you can keep a wounded or ammo-less cop from getting "finished off", so much the better.
If you have to let the cop know he/she has a potential ally, calmly but clearly say "I'm a CCW permitholder - do you need help!?" All cops have the ability to deputize citizens during an emergency - it's extremely rare but it can happen.
#18indycolts
Moderator
Try asking a cop what they would prefer YOU do. There won't be just one cop handling this problem for long...it won't take long for a situation like this to be crowded with cops...and you're there with your gun...think any of the cops are going to have their guns drawn on YOU? You bet.
btolliverjr
New member
Depends on lots of variables. The OP was "something going down." That covers a lot of territory. As for Mom and Ganny and daughter, WHAT is going down? Who am I with? What is the danger to me and my family? Just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea.
Just let me clarify where I have been coming from with this. I was not talking about if there was a LEO in the room. My original post to this thread was
What I have been talking about since then is if there is NO LEO. And I BELIEVE that some of the others that are commenting whether they would stop a killer or just sit and watch him kill (someone other than THEIR loved ones) are also making their stand from a situation without a LEO. Am I correct or have I been misunderstanding?wouldn't be a good idea. if you draw your weapon in a situation with a LEO in the room, guess who just became another target for the LEO He doesn't know that you are on his side.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
However, the thread is about whether you would act if there was an LEO already interacting - so why don't we stay with that?
Whether one should intervene in a situation where the victim is not an immediate something or other of yours as been beaten to death in the Internet forums for years.
I was in a FOF class, where the bad guy held up the store, the GG pulled the gun and started the gun fight. I hit the deck, which was concrete and got some nice bruises for the effort but it seemed like a plan at the time.
Whether one should intervene in a situation where the victim is not an immediate something or other of yours as been beaten to death in the Internet forums for years.
I was in a FOF class, where the bad guy held up the store, the GG pulled the gun and started the gun fight. I hit the deck, which was concrete and got some nice bruises for the effort but it seemed like a plan at the time.
Chuckusaret
Moderator
I have a CCW for self, family and my fellow mans protection against would be bad guys in the event there are no LE types on the scene. I have no hang ups about using deadly force. Done it before and can do it again
Its all about perspective
Okay,
How about this.... You are the cop (LEO) and you have a gunman shooting. You are going to engage and then you see another guy pull his gun too. Hmmm. Now as the LEO do you have one or two BG? Tough one to say depending on how he/she perceives you. You already know the first one is definitely a BG as he's shooting people.
In a split second assessment he engages an active BG. Now, what to do with you. Depending on the angle and how things unfold he may be shooting you next.
It's like a kid pointing a very realistic airsoft gun at a cop. He's justified to shoot you in all 50 states if the appropriate actions were taken and the child failed to follow or made threatening movements.
So, be aware of your situation.
Playing the WHAT IF's
If you can take out the BG right then? Hmm, tough one. I would. If not, let the LEO engage. If he's not able to then back him up. Let him know you'll be his back up as a law abiding citizen with a CCW. He'll appreciate having the help. How much he uses you will depend on the situation.
As to not engaging because it wasn't "my family or me" That's a total waste of time. If someone is shooting people in the mall and you didn't do anything... you have to live with yourself and may God have mercy on your cowardly soul.
Okay,
How about this.... You are the cop (LEO) and you have a gunman shooting. You are going to engage and then you see another guy pull his gun too. Hmmm. Now as the LEO do you have one or two BG? Tough one to say depending on how he/she perceives you. You already know the first one is definitely a BG as he's shooting people.
In a split second assessment he engages an active BG. Now, what to do with you. Depending on the angle and how things unfold he may be shooting you next.
It's like a kid pointing a very realistic airsoft gun at a cop. He's justified to shoot you in all 50 states if the appropriate actions were taken and the child failed to follow or made threatening movements.
So, be aware of your situation.
Playing the WHAT IF's
If you can take out the BG right then? Hmm, tough one. I would. If not, let the LEO engage. If he's not able to then back him up. Let him know you'll be his back up as a law abiding citizen with a CCW. He'll appreciate having the help. How much he uses you will depend on the situation.
As to not engaging because it wasn't "my family or me" That's a total waste of time. If someone is shooting people in the mall and you didn't do anything... you have to live with yourself and may God have mercy on your cowardly soul.
The Cop will be announcing his office and yelling commands--"POLICE DROP THE GUN" comply with them. Once the Copper IDs himself he has scene command. You don't want to be hit with friendly fire. BE ULTRA-COOPERATIVE and THICK SKINNED. When we were taught about off duty stuff we were told to expect to be roughly cuffed and treated as a offender until things got sorted out.
way back 15-20 years a feller walked into a busy small gun store and announced a robbery. Mind you, he walked past a marked patrol car of an officer who was inside. He was shot by the officer, the store keeps and civilian customers. He was hit upwards of 15 times. They do not know who fired the fatal wound as bullets from several guns were found in vital regions thru out the BG... No one else was injured or detained... I do understand this is a unique circumstance being a gun store however.
Brent
Brent