Remington74
New member
Could it be a war time bring back that someone decided to customize? Either WWI or WWII, maybe not captured on the battlefield but perhaps "confiscated" by a GI during the occupations?
Just picked up a P08 Luger with LOW serial #300...
- Thread starter roaddog.
- Start date
Hi.
Yes, it is clear you have not gotten my point. My point is that assumptions may be not serve us well. I say as much in the post you are concerned about. I used a man's name to illustrate my point, and you seem to feel that I am speaking about Germanic surnames themselves.
You are mistaken. I realize that not everyone is a native English speaker and that English is a contorted language at times.
Please be assured that my point is as follows:
We should make no assumptions regarding this pistol
dogtown tom
New member
Myth. No such vote ever occurred and would have lost by a landslide if it had.
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.asp
http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2016/04/april-fools-german-as-americas-official-language/
Lots of immigrants spoke the language of the old country, Polish, Italian, Chinese, etc in addition to English. There are still Czech language newspapers in parts of central and south Texas.
Chris, I think the problem was you picked the wrong Luftwaffe ace.
TRUE, Bob is not a very Germanic sounding name in English speaking ears but I think if you had chosen "the Star of Afrika" you point would have been clearer.
Hans Joachim Marsailles Over 150 kills (at the time of his death, and none of them Russian) began his career flying in the Berlin squadron, with a most "non-Germanic" sounding name.
I, of course, got your point right away...
The pistol is clearly a P.08. 1913?1914? ok. The engraving could have been done at any time after the pistol's manufacture, and the grips anytime after the rise of the Nazi party, though I SERIOUSLY doubt any self respecting Nazi would have accepted such shoddy workmanship.
(as a parallel and perhaps more easily understood situation) What do you think your Commissar would think (& do!) if you presented him with an engraved pistol with the soviet Hammer & Sickle backwards???
And, in fact there is (so far) nothing to actually link the engraving with the grips. I am curious to hear what else the new owner can tell us..
Jim Watson
New member
Unfortunately, the OP has offered no more information or discussion.
gbclarkson
New member
I have been enjoying this thread and had nothing of value to offer so I googled "GW Smith Nazi party" and found a book excerpt referencing a Corporal GW Smith participating in the European Theater in 1938. He was a British anti-aircraft gunner, though (if my cursory glance is correct).
A more established link between the person above and the engraving will take someone with more time, training and care than I (OP?)
Curious, what is engraved above the safety lever?
The book is Sons of Soldiers by Tomlin Simon if anyone cares more than I.
https://books.google.com/books?id=G...IKTAD#v=onepage&q=GW Smith Nazi party&f=false
A more established link between the person above and the engraving will take someone with more time, training and care than I (OP?)
Curious, what is engraved above the safety lever?
The book is Sons of Soldiers by Tomlin Simon if anyone cares more than I.
https://books.google.com/books?id=G...IKTAD#v=onepage&q=GW Smith Nazi party&f=false
My opinion (and that's all it is, just an opinion) - that is not a Nazi presentation gun. It has way too much wear on it. The grips are not expertly fitted. The Eagle and the Swastika doesn't look right. The name is English/American. I believe the engraver's name is under the safety switch, but I can't make it out.
My guess is that some American took a well worn WWI era Luger, had the grips made and had it engraved for whatever reason. He had his name engraved into the gun, not for historic reasons, but because he simply wanted his name on it. You can't call it a "fake" when it has an English name engraved on it - that makes no sense. At the time this was done, the Luger probably wasn't worth much and the person who did this was likely into Nazi stuff.
I equate this to someone in 1975 finding an old, worn '57 Colt Python in a pawn shop for $75, who always wanted an engraved Python with his name on it. Sends it to an engraver and perhaps he's handy enough to make some "custom" ivory grips for it.
My guess is that some American took a well worn WWI era Luger, had the grips made and had it engraved for whatever reason. He had his name engraved into the gun, not for historic reasons, but because he simply wanted his name on it. You can't call it a "fake" when it has an English name engraved on it - that makes no sense. At the time this was done, the Luger probably wasn't worth much and the person who did this was likely into Nazi stuff.
I equate this to someone in 1975 finding an old, worn '57 Colt Python in a pawn shop for $75, who always wanted an engraved Python with his name on it. Sends it to an engraver and perhaps he's handy enough to make some "custom" ivory grips for it.
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Jim Watson
New member
In the absence of a high appraisal (backed up by a real cash offer) and/or good provenance identifying Herr Smith, I would have some fun with it. What is German for BBQ?.
At minimum, get the rust off of it. The takedown catch checkering and safety serrations are the most obvious places, there might be others. Kroil and brush might be all you could do without affecting the appearance.
Consider refinishing, Ted charges $475 for rust blue plus $125 for straw colors.
Can Herr Smith's name be erased and mine added?
Can the Nazi crap be erased without distorting the shape of the grips?
At minimum, get the rust off of it. The takedown catch checkering and safety serrations are the most obvious places, there might be others. Kroil and brush might be all you could do without affecting the appearance.
Consider refinishing, Ted charges $475 for rust blue plus $125 for straw colors.
Can Herr Smith's name be erased and mine added?
Can the Nazi crap be erased without distorting the shape of the grips?
Jim Watson
New member
I looked it up, it is der Grill or just das Barbecue, or even die Grillparty.
It's ME, the OP
Thanks for ALL the feedback and discussions!!!
Hey guys, sorry for posting and dropping out of sight. Got contracts on three properties and have been SWAMPED.
Yep, I saw the grips before I bid on it. The limited, undocumented "story" I got from the grandson is: It was brought back after WWII by grandpa. He said GP was very proud of the gun and GS thought it was already engraved in the 40's when he traded rations for it. GP is not a "Smith" and there's no way to track the gun from production to the 40's. The ivory grips were obtained in the 50's while in Korea serving in Occupational Forces. The gun was one of many that lived in a foot locker (Also purchased a Nazi Sauer & Sohn 38H and Nazi Mauser HSc.). They rarely came out for show & tell. Appears to have imperial markings on top with date of 1913. Has three other mags. Two original wood bottoms and one that is questionable. Looking from some proper grips and will most likely have the ivory worked over to removed the terrible carvings.....with reversed swastika. I'll post more pictures when I get a chance.
Take Care!!
Thanks for ALL the feedback and discussions!!!
Hey guys, sorry for posting and dropping out of sight. Got contracts on three properties and have been SWAMPED.
Yep, I saw the grips before I bid on it. The limited, undocumented "story" I got from the grandson is: It was brought back after WWII by grandpa. He said GP was very proud of the gun and GS thought it was already engraved in the 40's when he traded rations for it. GP is not a "Smith" and there's no way to track the gun from production to the 40's. The ivory grips were obtained in the 50's while in Korea serving in Occupational Forces. The gun was one of many that lived in a foot locker (Also purchased a Nazi Sauer & Sohn 38H and Nazi Mauser HSc.). They rarely came out for show & tell. Appears to have imperial markings on top with date of 1913. Has three other mags. Two original wood bottoms and one that is questionable. Looking from some proper grips and will most likely have the ivory worked over to removed the terrible carvings.....with reversed swastika. I'll post more pictures when I get a chance.
Take Care!!
Attachments
Jim Watson
New member
HSc looks pretty good. No proof marks shown.
38H is a later type gun with rough finish and simplified roll mark but still has the safety.
38H is a later type gun with rough finish and simplified roll mark but still has the safety.