Just one more thing on that "cops" thread

K

Kframe

New member
A couple things:
Your peripheral vision (the corner of your eye) is really bad at seeing things when both you and the other object are moving.

So, and this is scientifically proven, if you are moving, it is much harder for you to identify the presence of another moving object; and if you do notice it, you will have a hard time correctly judging its course and velocity.

Second, I don't think cops are "protected" at TFL.
The reason it is suggested that we watch our words is that many of the members of TFL are cops, they are cops that enjoy guns and shooting like the rest of us, and in general they are not the A$$hole cops that are the ones harrassing people for no good reason.
So, when someone makes a blanket statement like "all cops are d!cks", it unnecessarily riles people up.

I think cops are the most obvious social group here, but there are also blacks, gays, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, whites, heterosexuals, men, women, old folks, teenagers, etc here so it's generally a bad idea to make moronic blanket statements because not everyone will agree with a racist, sexist, deist, ageist, homophobe statement.

No special treatment, just fair treatment.
-Kframe
 
If it was strictly a non-criminal traffic issue, I ALWAYS asked the operator:
"Do you know why I am stopping you?" Over 95% of the drivers would play dumb, with or w/o poor attitude or sarcasm. Of those that knew what they did, and told me, I cannot recall citing ONE of them. My ONLY exceptions to this were those w/o CURRENT proof of insurance. Even that one is able to be dismissed by sending in a photocopy of it with $5 to the Clerk of the Court. It pays to tell the truth.
 
Every ticket I received in the state of Ca.(moving violations, anyway) I deserved. None of the cops was hiding, either. It was just my own lameness/blindness that got me cited. (Thank god for traffic school) :D
 
I love to drive fast. I get away with it almost all the time. The few times I lose, it costs me $$$. But it was and remains my chioce to drive the speed I choose.

I am always very nice to the officer who pulls me over. Almost always I get a ticket for much less than I deserve. I always pay it and go on. One nice thing, never ever has even one ticket shown up on my driving record. I have been stopped for over 100 several times, seem to always end up with a ticket for 70 in a 55. On one of the 100+ stops, I even had the officer tell me the reason he only wrote me up for 15 MPH over was because I did everything right when he pulled me over. I thank the Lord for the officers who have written me lower tickets than I deserved.

I read a book many years ago on HOW TO SPEED AND GET AWAY WITH IT. It really helped. It was written by a retired state trooper.

Recently, I bought a season pass to a Go Cart Speedpark. That seems to help satisfy my need for speed on the public highways. Sorry to rant and rave so long... --plinker2--
 
I think we may be missing the point here. It doesn't matter if cops are good, bad or just plain ugly. The point is that in order to have an open discussion, you have to be fair and not try to impose any values on what follows, excepting of course direct violations of forum policies - I am fully aware that this isn't a democracy. However, I didn't notice any early warnings in the tide of Rosie O'Donnell threads saying things like, "now if there are any Rosie fans here just behave yourselves and don't flame", quite obviously because a common approach is expected on all the responses, "she's fat", "she's a commie" etc etc. The rules in this forum are adequately strict and perfectly clear, let's wait until they are broken before taking any action regardless of the topic. I have had at least 2 threads terminated here before any reponses were posted because someone thought they "may" encourage inflammatory or wild responses, and I'm afraid that when I see efforts to "guide" the nature of any discussion in a particular thread, my personal agenda warning light comes on. But having now sown the seed I'll be quiet and leave it there.

Mike H
 
Plinker2,

I can't help myself...I have a need for reprimanding you.

First of all, what planet do you live on where you don't get tickets on your record? Do you attend some type of traffic school? If so, a fat lot of good that's doing. Perhaps if the tickets showed up on your record the only driving you'd be doing would be at the Go Cart park after unbearable insurance rates and license suspension.

You said driving fast was and always is your choice, true, but your choice of going over 100+ miles an hour endangers me, my loved ones and innocents. No matter how good your driving skills are (honed on a go cart no less), one false move by grannie in her '77 olds and with your deadly speed, there's going to be death and mayhem for many innocents and you.

Justifying your recklessness with "a need for speed" bothers me big time. The next time you "lose" could be a lot more than $$. You may make some people lose their loved ones and your family will lose you!

Again, you stated it is your choice, does this mean you think this free country, the constitution, the bill of rights, etc. give you the right to speed excessively? Excessive speed=endangering the lives of others. (I'm sure you don't believe that to be true, but some people out there think freedom means the right to do anything they choose w/o accountability and responsibility)

Take it easy on the accelerator on the public roads and highways, have a blast at the park!

Regards,
HJ


[This message has been edited by Hydejam (edited May 25, 2000).]
 
Hydejam -

Try this on for size:

"You said shooting was and always is your choice, true, but your choice of shooting 30-round magazines quickly endangers me, my loved ones, and innocents. No matter how good your shooting skills are, one false move... and there's going to be death and mayhem for many innocents and you."

I couldn't miss that parallel.

Excess speed - whatever that is - does not necessarily endanger the lives of others.

-z
 
ditto what smithz said.
I've been known to "see what she's got", but only on a wide open road, usually a 3-lane highway, broad daylight, dry pavement in good condition.

If at that moment I flipped my car, or hit a deer I would be the only one to bite it.

I don't speed in residential areas, school zones, etc.

Speed does not always equal immenent danger.
But, dangerous driving quite often includes high speeds.
It's a gray line.

Rest assured, I'm not that A$$hole flying up behind you at 100+, swerving around you, and tossing garbage out the window.

You'll never see me go more than 80mph, cause I only do it when no one is around.
I mean no one at all. Here in the MN countryside you will find areas that the road has a slight downslope and you can see for about four miles ahead. If there are any vehicles in site I stay within 10mph of the limit.
-Kframe
 
The real problem here is that motorists are waaaay to preoccupied with other things, traffic laws included, while they are driving.

Ideally, when one is driving, safe operation of the vehicle should be THE paramount concern.

Unfortunately, that usually isn't the case.

I'm sure most, if not all of you have seen the Lexus commercials featuring people doing all kinds of stupid things (bent over looking for CDs, adoring their dogs, conducting business meeting with laptops, cell phones, documents...).

Common sense dictates that these are not things to be doing while piloting a 3000 lb.+ hunk of metal and glass down a strip of concrete 12 feet wide, along with other mobile hunks of metal and glass.

We have other distractions as well, courtesy of the government.

The overwhelming preoccupation of people on the road is, ultimately, the speed limit.

How long does it take to merely glance down to check your speed? A second? At 60 mph, you've just gone 71 ft. while your focus is on a piece of moving plastic on your dashboard. In other words, not where it should be.

For those of us that do speed, be it occasionally or regularly, How much of your attention is diverted by watching out for the cops? Is that where your attention should be?

And that's just dealing with the interstates and highways.

City traffic is a whole different animal altogether.

The design, timing, and placement of traffic signals is designed specifically to impede the flow of traffic, rather than to accomodate it. It's not that big of a secret, just ask any civil engineer. Case in point: In my home town, when I want to go the ice skating rink to play hockey, or go skating with the girlfriend, I come across 3 traffic lights. By adhering to the speed limit, I hit all three when they're red. On the other hand, If I hit the first light when it's green, and I keep it a 7 mph over the limit, I can make all three lights.

Now, I can already hear the objections; "What difference is that few minutes going to make?" I'll tell you what difference it'll make, but the difference is only partly measured in time.

I'll just ask a simple rhetorical question here. What is more efficient, as in, wastes less energy; A moving object that goes from point A to point B unhindered, or a moving object that, on the way from point A to point B, must come to a complete stop 3 seperate times and regain velocity under it's own power after each stop?

In all, I'm not saying that the traffic laws are right, nor am I saying that the people that choose to disobey them are right. Just saying that a meaningful change must be made by those with the power to do so in order to affect a meaningful change in the way people behave.
 
Hydejam:
Before I gracefully accept my reprimand, allow me to describe my driving habits.

Did I mention I love to drive fast? I never drink and drive. Truthfully, I have never even had a drink in my life. I never ever use a cell phone while driving, not even once. I do not tail gate. I never get mad at others over their driving style. I drive about 5 MPH faster than the other traffic (someone has to be the one doing the passing), unless the road is empty. When the interstate is relatively empty, I will drive 80 to 88 MPH. When it is wide open road, or an interstate mountain road with very little traffic, I will drive 95 to 100+.

At night, I do not out drive my headlights. Yes, this means the speedlimit or less some of the time.

The Go Carts, "Peddle to the Metal all the time :)" Lastly, I really do not know how my speeding tickets have never shown up on my insurance. I have never went to "Driving School" or those "Classes for Ticketed Speeders", Who knows? With that said, I now accept my reprimand and pledge to always be concious of those around me while exercising my "speed" habit. I promise. And I am still glad nice officers pull me over. --plinker2--
 
In Texas, you can go to Defensive Driving once a year if the judge agrees and then the ticket won't be on your record. Moreover, some people are allowed to go more than once a year. I happen to be a repeat offender, but usually not more than one a year. It got so bad that the last time I showed up at defensive driving, the instructor recognized me and told me that I should sit in my "usual place." Contrary to popular belief, speeding does not make one a bad driver, although many bad drivers do speed and many accidents are a result of a lac of control that comes with speed. I happen to feel that my yearly updates help to keep me as a better driver, albeit one who chooses to push the limits of his car.
 
In Texas, a 1981 law directs judges to send traffic law offenders to a driving safety course. If the driver has multiple citations, only one offense is supposed to be kept off his driving record.

A judge has a lot of leeway. Even if you had a ticket dismissed last month and get another ticket this month, even the same judge may permit you to take another driving safety course.

In his little courtroom, the judge IS the law. With JPs (Justice of the Peace), his rulings usually stand because of the cost of further legal action. Also, if the driver feels the judgement is in his best interest there's seldom an argument! ;)

When a ticket is dismissed you do not get off free. You still pay the court various fees (depending upon the court) and you must get a copy of your driving record from the state (to present to the court) but only the fact you took a school goes on your record - not the offense which was "dismissed".

The school, by law, must cost at least $25.

Whether you take the school because of a traffic offense, or merely for the insurance benefit, you still get the insurance benefit.

Your insurance company MUST give you a 10% discount on the liability portion of your car insurance (NOT the entire insurance bill). A Lloyds insurance company or a county mutual insurance company do not grant this discount because they insure high-risk drivers (a lawful exception).

(If you have a decent driving record, and you are insured by one of these two types of insurance companies, check around. You might save a LOT of money by insuring elsewhere.)

If you attend for insurance purposes only, the instructor gives you a certificate (to present to your insurance company) upon successful completion of class. If you attend the class for ticket dismissal purposes, the Texas Education Agency sends you a two-part form: 1) for the court and 2) for your insurance company.

The insurance discount is good for three years (if you stay "clean".)

I teach such a course, my wife attended ($25), and our insurance savings paid for the course in less than 3 months. The other 33 months will be gravy.
 
Christopher, well, you're somewhat right. Traffic signals aren't really timed to impede the flow of traffic, they're timed to allow traffic to merge & cross more efficiently & safely by creating staggered breaks in the flow of traffic. Traffic signal timing is also based on the heaviest 15 minutes of traffic the signal is expected to encounter. Sometimes it's impossible for signals to cause traffic to flow smoothly - sometimes it's due to the sheer volume of traffic, sometimes it's because politicians (who dictate things like where the money for roads & DOT salaries come from) got involved in engineering work to make their drive easier, at the expense of everyone else's (this has happened locally).

Remember, all the roads you drive on are designed to handle 85% of the vehicle/driver combinations at the design speed (sometimes the speed limit, sometimes the speed limit is set at 85% of the des. speed, depending on local standards). So, about 1/6 vehicles out there with you at any given time are operating unsafely at the speed limit, let alone beyond it.

Being in a motor vehicle is probably the most dangerous thing any of us will do on any sort of regular basis. Would you go to a range where you knew 1/6 of the shooters there were unsafe?

That being said, excessive speed isn't necessarily any more likely to cause a collision - it depends on the driver, the vehicle, the road & weather, and the other vehicles. What does increase with speed is the likelihood of serious injury or death if a vehicle is involved in a collision (notice, I didn't call it an accident). If you're risking your own life, and you're willing to have your family or estate pick up the tab for any damage to public/private property you might take out, do what you wish.
 
All of you trying to justify/minimize sloppy driving habits, please consider this. What would your reaction be if I were to gamble with your money, without so much as considering your thoughts on the subject? I'd expect you'd be looking to kick my axx. So what gives you the right to gamble with the lives of those around you?
 
The only speed law I obey is the basic one, that is essentially, "Drive at a speed that is safe for the vehicle and road conditions." If there's traffic, I'll stick to their speed, if there's no traffic, on open highway, I'll go as fast as I see fit.
 
Topic:
"Just 17 more things on that 'cops' thread" :D :D :D

<hey, who typed that????? :confused:>

[This message has been edited by CindyH (edited May 26, 2000).]
 
Lonestar, Destructo6 said it best, I won't add anything to it.

Sloppy driving habits and speeding are two different things. A sloppy driver is dangerous, whether he/she is obeying the posted speed limit or not. DUI, chatting on a cell phone, reading a newspaper, exhaustion, smoking, picking out a CD to play, talking to passengers (esp. yelling at the kids), looking at the scenery, etc., etc. - they all divert attention from driving. Then you throw in what I think of as the intentionally bad drivers (a friend of mine calls 'em "Non-Driving MF's") like tailgaters, the people who don't know what a turn signal is for, people who change lanes/merge into traffic w/o looking, people who drive too slow (statiscally, they cause more accidents than speeders), people who drive too fast for conditions (weather, road, & vehicle), people who generally have their heads up their own rear ends, the brake-riders, etc., the roads become dangerous indeed. My point is, an individual driver isn't inherently more dangerous than another just because of the speed they are travelling at. Now, when you combine bad driving with excessive speed, bad things happen faster.

The main thing is, does the operator have control of the vehicle at all times? If you find yourself approaching that limit, please, slow down. If you really want to push it, find a race track - sooner or later you will wreck if you're operating close to the vehicle's (or your) limits.
 
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